THE DISTORTIONS OF THE INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIP; Request for Content on Pseudomutuality
https://www.reddit.com/r/zeronarcissists/comments/1h1kwfs/the_distortions_of_the_interpersonal_relationship/
created by theconstellinguist on 28/11/2024 at 01:46 UTC*
2 upvotes, 1 top-level comments (showing 1)
THE DISTORTIONS OF THE INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIP ; Request for Content on Pseudomutuality
- *The Distortions of the Interpersonal Relationship; Request for Content on Pseudomutuality**
- **This was by request for content on pseudo-mutuality by a user.***
- *Citation:** Janiri, L. THE DISTORTIONS OF THE INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.
- *Link:** https://www.lirpa-internationaljournal.it/en/2018/06/22/the-distortions-of-the-interpersonal-relationship/[1][2]
1: https://www.lirpa-internationaljournal.it/en/2018/06/22/the-distortions-of-the-interpersonal-relationship/
2: https://www.lirpa-internationaljournal.it/en/2018/06/22/the-distortions-of-the-interpersonal-relationship/
- **Full disclaimer on the unwanted presence of AI codependency cathartics/ AI inferiorists as a particularly aggressive and disturbed subsection of the narcissist population:*** https://narcissismresearch.miraheze.org/wiki/AIReactiveCodependencyRageDisclaimer[3][4]
3: https://narcissismresearch.miraheze.org/wiki/AIReactiveCodependencyRageDisclaimer
4: https://narcissismresearch.miraheze.org/wiki/AIReactiveCodependencyRageDisclaimer
- *A person in a pseudo-mutual relationship tries to maintain the idea or feeling that he or she is meeting the needs of the other person with various degrees of this being accurate or inaccurate. Genuine mutuality, by contrast, thrives upon divergence, the partners in the relationship taking pleasure in each other’s growth.**
1. Pseudo-mutuality (Wynne et al., 1958) arises when an individual feels the need for a relationship with someone, perhaps because of painful earlier experiences of separation anxiety. A person in a pseudo-mutual relationship tries to maintain the idea or feeling that he or she is meeting the needs of the other person; in other words that there is a mutually complementary relationship. Those involved in pseudo-mutual relationships are predominantly concerned with fitting together at the expense of their respective identities. Genuine mutuality, by contrast, thrives upon divergence, the partners in the relationship taking pleasure in each other’s growth. Each has a real wish that the other achieve fulfilment of desires and expectations. In pseudo-mutuality there is dedication only to the sense of reciprocal fulfilment, not to its actuality. With pseudo-hostility (Wynne, 1981), the apparent emotional relationship, in this case hostility, is a substitute for a true, intimate relationship, which is absent. Wynne and his colleagues concluded that the families of ‘potential schizophrenics’ are characterized by pseudo-mutuality and consequently have rigid, unchanging role structures which they cling to as essential.
- *Prior to the Second World War, psychiatrists saw how people adapted to their social environments and may have endorsed removing them from the setting to prevent adverse effects in their family environments.**
- *This may prevent proneness from being expressed, but for those who don’t want to change despite the science of the damage done to the child and similarly don’t want to understand the science, this can be particularly distressing.**
- *None of this would be necessary if healthcare was pervasive, taken seriously, and of a high quality so children could develop in safe family environments and prevent proneness from being expressed so that the child did not report such deep distress.**
- *Often the children report a deep distress at having to choose the end of their pain at the hands of their family with something happening to their family or their family being split up in a way they may want to reverse, but it then gets closed off to them under “betrayal” rhetoric.**
- *This can be an excruciating choice especially for a child to make; to chose their proneness not being expressed and giving themselves a chance as well as relief from the excruciating abuse or being subjected to excruciating pain at the hand of their families.**
- *Many problems like housing stability and entrenched poverty have to do with unstable people not thinking their child’s future and development are worth it enough to get the help they need, and often this help is deeply insufficient and not taken seriously or even undermined due to just how pervasive the problem pathology is in that population.**
- *However, for children who express pain and express they do not like the direction their family is going antisocially this is particularly distressing. They also do not enjoy proneness becoming expressed but may have every chance of it not doing so taken from them by being kept “in their culture” when they report it causing them serious pain.**
- *For example, child sexual abuse victims or children sold during sex tourism show a disturbing tension between remaining identified with the very place that did this to them while actively stating how painful it was and how much hate they feel for what their family did. Those who aren’t able to beat the proneness often end up fully expressed repeating the cycle.**
1. Prior to the Second World War, the response of psychiatrists to the difficulties their patients appeared to have in adapting to their family and social environments was often to remove patients from their families in order to ensure recovery in a setting away from the possible adverse effects of their family environments.This was often in a psychiatric hospital far away from their families; or if psychoanalysis was to be the treatment used, the transference relationship with the therapist was supposed to replace that with the actual family member(s) with whom the subject was believed to have difficulty.
- *Slowly family therapy is becoming more intelligent showing how genetics and multigenerational linkages involve people processing not just their immediate family, but much of the backup of previous families down the line in ways they might not have realized they were processing.**
1. Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagy proposed the concept of ‘invisible loyalties’. This was the title of a subsequent book of which he was co-author. He was one of a number of therapists who came to feel that work should not be limited to the nuclear family or to current transactions. Multigenerational linkages and the wider family system began to be taken increasingly into account.
- *A strange tension between someone choosing what they are doing and knowing they have gaslit about that in the past with someone actually not choosing it can happen when slight or large differences in genetics and genetic predisposition cause inaccurate projections that ultimately destroy rapport due to the inaccuracy of the projection.**
- *This is why an evidence-based approach is critical; imprinting what is usually true in a homogenous environment will not work and can cause real damage in a heterogenous environment.**
- *For instance, if someone is struggling with violent expression and another with mere depressive rumination, these two differences in externalization vs. internalization may lead to massively inaccurate projections. This is why evidence-based data seeking is critical before deciding on a patient paradigm.**
1. The person who is trying to achieve control does not use direct means, but instead attributes opinions, feelings or values to the other person. An example is to be found in the following quotation from Laing (1965, pages 349–50): ‘Mother: I don’t blame you for talking that way. I know you don’t really mean it. Daughter: But I do mean it. Mother: Now, dear, I know you don’t. You can’t help yourself. Daughter: I can help myself. Mother: No, dear, I know you can’t because you’re ill. If I thought for a moment you weren’t ill, I would be furious with you.’ Laing links his concept of mystification with the ideas of Wynne and Lidz. He considers that it functions to maintain stereotyped roles at the expense of reality, rather as pseudo-mutuality and pseudo-hostility were considered to do. It also serves to fit other people into a set mould as described by Lidz et al. (1958).
- *As a way to support collapsing self-esteem and feeling no real, internalized love for oneself one may try to gain the critical threshold by being with similar people that are almost disturbingly similar.**
- *This may be an attempt to experience and create the bond to self that autonomously-complete individuals have internalized in a centralized, internalized way and can be detected by an ongoing ability to self-approve without the energy frequently collapsing or collapsing at all.**
- *Perhaps this ability to maintain self-approval for shorter amounts of time with it having a more frequent collapse rate is the signature of a pseudo-mutuality that needs autonomy and core positive regard construct work that is not so prone to misread or unstable feedback externally and rather receives its own feedback in self-referencing ways, such as "did I at least do better than last time?"**
- *Another person, due to their own history and projecting issues, can really destabilize an otherwise accurate evaluation of the situation done in a closed, internally self-referencing way with a stable contract used to measure the situation.**
- *This is a stabilized core construct able to build and possess core positive self regard.**
- *Diffusing unidirectional narcissism may lead to periods of pseudo-mutuality that still need to continue to be resolved into a capacity for real mutuality as much as it is possible given the bad blood of the situation and the mistrust of the situation. This will take decades to do but must be committed to.**
- *Two pseudo-mutual people looking to each other for autonomy leadership are likely just going to cause frequent mutual collapse even if they are able to regroup. The dynamics of Palestine and Israel during more successfully peaceful periods may reflect this.**
- *Like the restructuring period in Germany under Ulbricht with large Soviet support after the second world war, a design specifically focused on stability and structuring with a focus on autonomous empowerment with large external supports can restructure the profoundly disabling effect of particularly aggressive or specifically world war.**
- *This can serve to prevent the rigid narcissistic defenses if this healing occurs without competent support or with active malicious antisocial people and behaviors insidious in the structure of what should otherwise be prosocial support. This insidious antisociality where prosociality should be should also be considered incompetent support.**
- *Though the scars of pseudoscientific narcissism to psychologically survive an extremely aggressive World War are still entirely visible on Germany, it has profoundly resolved a good deal of it and this type of external support is in large part responsible where it was actually competent and not insidiously undermining. Any failure of a certain threshhold here would have reestablished the narcissistic defense out of adapting to incompetence of two variations; deliberately antisocial in a necessarily prosocial sector or simply just bad without intending to be.**
1. The second chapter of Conjoint Family Therapy is entitled, ‘Low self esteem and mate selection’. It explores how people, whose views of themselves are poor, depend on what others think of them.They present a ‘false self’ to the world, rather as Winnicott (1960) defines the term. People with low self-esteem are liable to marry other similar people. Each partner is deceived by the psychological defences of the other – that is by the false self the other presents to the world. At the same time each has fears of disappointment and difficulty in trusting others, including, of course, their respective mates. Satir suggests that this can lead to serious marital difficulties.
Comments
Comment by Forward-Pollution564 at 28/11/2024 at 16:41 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Thank you