18 upvotes, 2 direct replies (showing 2)
View submission: Is zazen truly Zen?
These are not widely held opinions. Out of hundreds of thousands of people interested in Zen, these are opinions held by like maybe 4 or 5 people on /r/zen (assuming they are not alt accounts). You won't find any scholars or serious practitioners who agree with these points.
Anyway, to address your questions:
Is zazen truly Zen?
There are many different practices that fall under the name "zazen". They are all "Zen" if they are recommended by an authorized Zen teacher. There is no official "Zen Orthodoxy" that defines what falls within our without the categories of authenticity. Specific schools or lineages will likely favor one approach over another, but none of them speak for the Zen community as a whole.
namely the shinkantaza practice found in Dogens Soto Zen is his own invention and that the whole sect he established is really an offshoot that did not take into consideration any of the actual teachings of Caodong Buddhism from China?
Well we don't really know what Dogen's full understanding of shinkantaza was because he did not really define it in writing that has made it down to us. He describes a meditation method at the of Fukanzazengi but he does not label it shinkantaza and its more koan-like than what most people would recognize as shinkantaza these days.
But even if he did create a new method, that would be fine. The Zen tradition has always been about trying new skillful means and seeing what works. Any authorized Zen teacher is free to experiment. For example, koan practice only came around hundreds of years after the start of the Zen tradition in China.
I like that the tradition keeps innovating. This is a feature, not a bug and I hope it continues. Things that work (like koans) will stick around and things that don't will not.
And lastly, even if we did know what Dogen's method was for shikanataza, I am not sure we have written descriptions of what the Chinese Silent Illumination practice was that we could compare it to. I am not sure we can take Dahaui's criticisms about it at face value.
We have quotes from Caodong teachers such "In complete silence words are forgotten / total clarity appears before you." but sounds to me more like the result of meditation as opposed to actual meditation instructions.
Even this detailed passage sounds more like a diagnostic test than instructions:
Completely silently be at ease. In true thusness, separate yourself from all causes and conditions. Brightly luminous without defilements, you directly penetrate and are liberated. You have from the beginning been in this place; it is not something that is new to you today. From the time before the vast eon when you dwelled in your old [original] home, everything is completely clear and unobscured and numinous and singularly bright. But although this is the case, it is necessary that you act on it. When you act on it in this way, you must not give rise to the smallest strand of hair and not conceal a speck of dust. Cold and like dry wood, [you should practice] the great rest with broad and penetrating comprehension [kuoche mingbai]. If your rest and cessation is not complete and you wish to go to the realm [of the Buddha] and to leave birth and death, then [you should know] there is no such place. Just as you are, you must break through, understanding without the defilement of discursive thinking, and be pure without any worries.
As an aside, I would argue "just sitting" is a result of meditation and not actual instructions, but perhaps that is too much of a digression.
To add to that some think he subverted the teachings and came up with new ones essentially conning people into his newly formed zazen based “cult”.
Well if that is true, it has been a very effective "cult". The collective teachings of Soto Zen that have made it down to our times are profound and life-changing.
Finally, there are opinions that zazen, the way Dogen describes it in Fukanzazengi and his other writings is not present in any kind of Buddhism, especially not in the Caodong lineage which, according to some, he questionably hails from.
The way he describes how to use awareness at the end of Fukanzazengi is rather koan-like. In fact, it is actually quoting a Chinese koan. Dogen's general approach to practice was inquiry-based and this was in line with that theme. It is also inline with the koan-like exhortations of his Caodong ancestors such as "How about your self before the empty eon?".
Also, what about rinzai? Is that a different zazen?
Rinzai has multiple types of zazen such as breath counting, following the breath, extended exhalation and koan introspection.
Comment by DonumDei621 at 24/01/2025 at 20:11 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I really appreciate your lengthy response. It’s illuminating. Thank you.
A final question. Dogen found that shinkantaza was a very effective way to “do” enlightenment. From what I understand he doesn’t limit the ways to “enter”enlightenment essentially gatekeeping it (as some critics suggest) by way of zazen only. Did he find that sitting still in the position the Buddha sat was just the best and most expedient way to practice (through running the above zen tradition diagnostics that you mentioned)? Instead of doing it by way of cooking for example?
Thanks again!
Comment by KamiNoItte at 24/01/2025 at 19:35 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Very interesting points, thank you.