Comment by genjoconan on 24/01/2025 at 19:03 UTC*

15 upvotes, 2 direct replies (showing 2)

I don't have time to write a very lengthy post now, but a couple of points:

1. The Caodong teacher Hongzhi Zhengjue championed a form of practice that became known as Silent Illumination. Dogen was clearly inspired by Hongzhi and Silent Illumination, and quotes Hongzhi more often than any other Zen ancestor. Modern Chan teachers have described Dogen's practice as not exactly equivalent to Hongzhi's Silent Illumination, but not dissimilar either. We also have record evidence of other Chan teachers, predating Hongzhi, who taught seated meditation (including one--I can't remember his name off the top of my head--whose temple became known as the Dead Tree Stump temple because all of the monks just sat there like dead tree stumps). Somehow, though, when people say "Dogen just made this stuff up!", examples like that either get ignored or for some reason don't count.

2. Consider Occam's Razor: if the overwhelming majority of Zen practitioners and academic researchers believe that Dogen's practice was largely in line with that of his ancestors, and a couple of loud but anonymous voices on Reddit believe otherwise, what's more likely? Is it more likely that the overwhelming majority is wrong, and that the anonymous Redditors are right, or vice versa? Sure, it's *possible* that the Redditors are right and that everyone else to consider the question is wrong, but what's more likely?

Replies

Comment by the100footpole at 26/01/2025 at 14:01 UTC

2 upvotes, 1 direct replies

(including one--I can't remember his name off the top of my head--whose temple became known as the Dead Tree Stump temple because all of the monks just sat there like dead tree stumps)

This would be Shishuang Qinqzhu: https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/ShishuangQingzhu.html[1][2]