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created by [deleted] on 11/11/2024 at 06:15 UTC
550 upvotes, 62 top-level comments (showing 25)
[deleted]
Comment by John628556 at 11/11/2024 at 06:46 UTC
146 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I can't speak to the questions in your last paragraph, but your story is important. We have the right ideas, but we haven't built as much of a constituency as we need.
I think of people blaming Kathy Hochul for overturning congestion pricing in New York. To some extent, they're right to blame her. But it's also true that we've failed rather dramatically to get ordinary voters on the side of congestion pricing.
Comment by kingofmymachine at 11/11/2024 at 06:38 UTC
443 upvotes, 6 direct replies
This is a major problem even in big cities. Anything anti-car (aka pro-pedestrian and pro-transit) causes intense negative emotion from people who dont have critical thinking abilities. Very sad. You did the right thing.
Comment by [deleted] at 11/11/2024 at 06:37 UTC*
108 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by SabbathBoiseSabbath at 11/11/2024 at 11:53 UTC
54 upvotes, 1 direct replies
In 2019 something similar happened in Eagle, Idaho - a small and wealthy suburb to Boise. Eagle is almost exclusively large estate lot detached single family housing, tiny cute downtown, bordered at the edges of town by two huge stroads. Eagle has been growing like crazy and mostly wealthy, retired Californians moving there.
The incumbent mayor and council at the time started advocating for a few "dense" housing projects near downtown, more bike infrastructure, etc. Small projects with the idea Eagle needed to stop sprawling and build more densely in the future.
The mayor was voted out, as well as most of council - the newly elected mayor and council ran almost entirely on a pro-sprawl, anti-density campaign.
Comment by october73 at 11/11/2024 at 08:06 UTC
97 upvotes, 4 direct replies
You built political capital and you spent it well. Thank you.
Better than compromising, catering, and getting nothing done. Sure it would’ve been nice if you could continue your work, but that’s not always up to you. Maybe in a few years people will realize what was done and back a sane mind again.
Comment by manchesterisbell at 11/11/2024 at 10:07 UTC
66 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Forgot to mention, two weeks before the election, we hosted the state transportation cabinet meeting for the first time ever. Lots of engineers and decision makers. I was able to give the opening address and thank them. And they thanked us for making the decision many cities refuse to make. Really cool experience. Thirteen days later, I lost. Thanks for the comments, they really do help. I still have some years left to fight the battle.
Comment by lowrads at 11/11/2024 at 09:46 UTC
32 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Progress always has a price, and doesn't happen until someone is willing to pay it.
Comment by hopscotch_uitwaaien at 11/11/2024 at 13:27 UTC
42 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Madison WI is a platinum-level bicycle city and often gets high rankings on various “bests” lists but every single pedestrian or bicycle or transit improvement is met with allegations that the mayor is just trying to make it impossible to drive and force people from their cars. Businesses on the route said that the implementation bus rapid transit would destroy all of their business.
Comment by Vast_Web5931 at 11/11/2024 at 14:52 UTC
33 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Run again. It was a shit year for incumbents.
It could be several years before your community realizes all the benefits of the project. Thank you for taking one for the team.
As necessary as these projects may be the cure can be worse than the disease in the short term. Large capital projects are very disruptive to retail and dining; those low margin business often have just a few weeks or months of cash on hand. Losing 10% or more of business for any length of time can be devastating. Property may change hands. Businesses may close. Losing a few on one block can lead to retail collapse. Next thing you know, your storefronts are filled by financial service firms and chiropractors. Good bye sales tax base. Oh and then they may also be hit by a property tax assessment for said improvements.
Not for the OP: People who work in planning and economic development tend to be a bit clueless on this stuff. Yes, small business owners can be reptilian, superstitious, and misinformed; often they can’t think beyond what they see out the front door. As a small business owner I’ve had plenty of debates with my peers about parking minimums and traffic speed/volume on our main street. So understand where people like me are coming from and develop tools to avoid empty storefronts. Major capital projects can last years and cost tens of millions. Of that amount very little is directed towards helping existing businesses stay viable. Bridges loans, grants, and property tax relief should be budgeted for and even counted as a local match for such projects.
Comment by Diiagari at 11/11/2024 at 17:43 UTC*
14 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I think a lot of the urban planning / walkability / environmental sustainability stuff really has to be sold to the community in terms of cold hard cash. Roundabouts reduce the taxpayer cost for cleaning up crashes. Road diets decrease the maintenance overhead. Sidewalk repair reduces legal liability. Bike lanes improve business prosperity. Transit infrastructure increases home values.
You can also talk about security: HOV lanes improve emergency response times. Pedestrian barriers defend property against car attacks and drunk driving. Traffic cameras help prosecute car theft and joyriding. Bike lockers deter petty crime. Protect your kids by making sure they can get to school safely.
As much as I personally am happy to support this stuff on principle, I think it’s important to be able to connect with folks on a nuts and bolts level. Presenting a project as saving money and securing the community makes it harder to demonize. Strong Towns has been a good example for this sort of strategy.
Comment by Loraxdude14 at 11/11/2024 at 12:52 UTC
24 upvotes, 1 direct replies
As someone from just outside the tri-state area, my condolences. I'll have to drive over sometime to see it!
One sobering thing that this past election has reminded me is that sometimes great things can just take too long to be of political benefit. I'm sure people will be more thankful for it in 5-10 years.
Comment by UnfazedBrownie at 11/11/2024 at 13:02 UTC
14 upvotes, 0 direct replies
You did the right thing and we need more elected officials to do these long term things vs shirt term political wins. I would say this is a phenomenon in the United States, but human nature is short term. Voters are moved by short term narratives and are willing to ignore long term benefited if it means it’ll save 2 minutes on their Starbucks drive thru. Good job and sorry you lost. Looks like your town missed out!
Comment by manchesterisbell at 11/11/2024 at 14:39 UTC
10 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I should say that I’m venting a bit. Losing by 200 votes was well within my ability to change. This was ultimately on me. I learned a lot about campaigning as well and that a race for Mayor is very different than a race for Commissioner.
Comment by jcravens42 at 11/11/2024 at 14:12 UTC*
11 upvotes, 4 direct replies
I am originally from Kentucky. I live in a rural area of Oregon, in a town that bristles at the idea of being in the Portlandia metro area. There are five roundabouts, three built since I've lived here, all on county or state roads at the edge of town, so none of the local elected officials can be "blamed" for them - but if they ever made a peep about supporting them, they would be voted out SO fast. The hate in this community for roundabouts - which have vastly improved safety and traffic flow - is unhinged.
Comment by RainyDay1962 at 11/11/2024 at 15:15 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Follow up to my other comment, but have you ever had an article published about your experiences OP? This is the first time I've read about you, even as a subscriber to this sub. I'd love to read or hear about you in an urbanism journal, hopefully you'll consider doing an interview.
Comment by offbrandcheerio at 11/11/2024 at 16:13 UTC
4 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Happens everywhere. I worked for a small city in Iowa and at one point local business owners in a shopping/dining/bar district in our downtown caused a stink about street trees blocking the view of their businesses. They were demanding the city cut all of them down, which would have made the pedestrian experience hell in the summer. Luckily the city didn’t give in and instead just came to a compromise with the business owners to be more intentional about pruning the trees regularly.
Comment by NecessaryRhubarb at 11/11/2024 at 18:41 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I’ll add that from a layperson’s perspective, when I drive through a town with a sting of closely connected roundabouts, replacing stop signs, lights or uncontrolled intersections, my gut immediately goes to “over-engineered, waste of taxpayer dollars”.
I think this is 100% a messaging/delivery issue. I’d rather pay double for the project to be done in phases, starting with the most dangerous/heavily trafficked intersection, backed up by the evidence of reduction in accidents, etc., as a way of easing me into it.
And this is coming from someone who worked in a small Dutch town for a while, experienced how amazing bicycle first infrastructure and properly designed roundabouts are far superior to the mess of car first infrastructure in the United States.
Comment by RedFoxWhiteFox at 11/11/2024 at 18:39 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The small town my parents live in added one single roundabout to mitigate traffic fatalities at one intersection. Fatalities this year at that intersection plunged to zero. The community still hasn’t stopped complaining and moaning about the roundabout. This is the same community that 35 years after getting its first McDonald’s, still complains that it’s run by outsiders.
Comment by skiddie2 at 11/11/2024 at 16:38 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Same happened in Culver City, California. Bike lanes were installed, reactionary councilors were elected to replace those who built the project, and now the bike lanes have been torn out. It’s so sad.
Comment by quintillion_too at 11/11/2024 at 20:54 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
political capital is meant to be spent! far better outcome that some improvements have been made for the cost of reelection, than you courting inoffensive decisions that keep your job. otherwise what's even the point?
Comment by no_idea_bout_that at 12/11/2024 at 17:38 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
When I visited South Bend a few years ago, people were mad at Mayor Pete for putting so many roundabouts because they made it "take forever" to get across town.
Maumee Ohio did a lot of traffic calming, but now they're facing an unrelated cost for storm water overflows, and everyone is mad.
Comment by kittyonkeyboards at 12/11/2024 at 19:53 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I always remember that Japanese leader that built flood protection for a town and was widely mocked by that town. Until decades later when they would have been wiped away if it wasn't for the flood protection.
Sadly when it deals with infrastructure, something you do now might not be felt for 10 years. But the election is in two. And as we've learned from the presidential election, you can't really persuade voters on complex issues.
Comment by beneoin at 11/11/2024 at 13:57 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
My general advice is to never do anything new in an election year. Easier said than done, but you're talking about a pretty serious overhaul involving 5 roundabouts when you say roundabouts are controversial in your area. You could maybe have done 1 this year and called it a pilot. People will not have had time to adapt and see the benefits.
OTOH, it'll be quite hard to take them out so maybe people will like them and you can run again on your record, but next time planning out the term in office to not cause major upheaval right before the election would help.
Comment by Sechilon at 11/11/2024 at 14:45 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I really like roundabouts because they are effective at slowing drivers down. But many people have a visceral hatred to them, likely because they force you to think while driving about safe speed and are not a simple to or stop.
I’m sorry that your project was politically unpopular but I agree I think the project will long term help your downtown area.
Comment by Kingfisher317 at 11/11/2024 at 17:17 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I live in Michigan and I've heard roundabouts are more common here, I imagine that's why there's so much hate elsewhere? The town reminds me a lot like downtown Muskegon, where I lived for 3 years. It's a fantastic place to live. Hopefully people will calm down. By the way, I'm super jealous of the Arcade!!!