https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/neohui/why_are_eastern_europeans_overlooked_when_it/
created by redwhiterosemoon on 17/05/2021 at 18:53 UTC*
329 upvotes, 41 top-level comments (showing 25)
I think often Eastern Europans struggles and xenophobia they face are overlooked in the UK.
I know that Eastern European are much more recent migrants than the ones that came from the formal British colonies such as India. Although, there was some migration to the UK from Poland to the UK after Second World War. The migration from Eastern Europe in large numbers really started after Poland and other Eastern European nations joined the UE. Currently, Polish people are the second largest group of foreign-born citizens after Indians. There is also a sizable community of Rumanians, Lithuanians, Slovaks and other Eastern Europeans.
However, there is very little representation in the media of Eastern Europeans. Whereas for example, Pakistanis had 'Citizen Khan'. And many BAME characters are represented in British soap operas or in media generally.
And while Eastern European might experience different discrimination than Black-British or Indian-British their experience should not be minimalized.
I have a lot of Eastern European friend (Polish and Rumanians) who complain a lot about discrimination. I have witnessed how people treat Eastern Europeans. It is also interesting that I have witnessed a lot of discrimination towards Eastern Europeans from other migrants.
In my opinion, sometimes people are more comfortable with being xenophobic towards Eastern Europeans because they are white so it isn't racist, of course, it is xenophobic but somehow in the mind of some people this is 'allowed'. Whereas they are careful not to say anything offensive to BAME person. Also, Eastern Europeans do not usually talk about the discrimination they face.
This is from the Guardian article[1]:
​
I could write a lot about this topic but I will stop here.
Here are some interesting articles about this topic:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/03/09/incomplete-europeans-polish-migrants-experience-of-prejudice-and-discrimination-in-the-uk-is-complicated-by-their-whiteness/[2][3]
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/22/xenophobic-bullying-souring-lives-of-east-european-pupils-in-uk[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish%5C_sentiment[6][7]
6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish%5C_sentiment
7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish_sentiment
​
​
Comment by [deleted] at 18/05/2021 at 06:45 UTC
33 upvotes, 3 direct replies
[removed]
Comment by shayhtfc at 17/05/2021 at 21:54 UTC
56 upvotes, 1 direct replies
When it comes to programmes like Citizen Khan, I don't think that Eastern Europeans are seen yet as being a group of people who are migrating to Britain, and 'becoming British' so to say.
​
Whereas Indians, Pakistanis etc are moving here, and lets be honest, won't be going back, ever, there's still a perception that Eastern Europeans are coming here to work, then to go back home again.
Comment by soviet84 at 17/05/2021 at 22:47 UTC
43 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm an eastern european, and I hate when I get invited to diversity meetings at the workplace to be reminded that Im an outsider... I feel completely part of the group otherwise... I go out socialising with the english and have a lot of friends too. But then comes HR sets up segregated meetings for different races & genders, that points out that we are actually different to the British and how does this make us feel sort of thing... wtf...
Comment by Son_of_Mogh at 18/05/2021 at 08:37 UTC
8 upvotes, 0 direct replies
You're right, I don't think there is enough representation. I have seen some attempts, The Archers and coronation street have Eastern-European characters.
I'm British Indian, I'm a bit of a coconut by some asian's standards and "not like the others" by some white British people's standards. One of the most confusing things I've found is white British people accepting of me but who hold very xenophobic views about Eastern-Europeans, I've argued with them to the point where I've cut them out of my life.
In general I get along really well with Eastern-Europeans. I'm not sure if it's a sense of shared otherness, where even though our original cultures are not the same in this country we share being outsiders.
Sadly I've seen black and asian people say racist things about EE and have also seen a rise in EE anti-islam graffiti and posters around where I live.
Comment by ruumis at 17/05/2021 at 20:51 UTC
42 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm Latvian-born, moved to the UK 14 years ago. I have nothing against being called Eastern European but don't identify as one. I am British, Latvian, Baltic, European. I have never, not once felt marginalised or being left out - I believe I'm more likely to be confronted of being Latvian in Latvia than in Britain. I don't believe there is a such thing as Eastern European identity. Would an Englishman give an unsolicited hug to a Frenchman because "he's my western brother"? I'm a hugger myself but there are reasons to embrace your fellow men, better than you both being born on the bad side of the iron curtain. Cheers, comrades!
Comment by Alekz6661 at 17/05/2021 at 20:31 UTC*
7 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I very much recommend the movie called “Redirected” by the Lithuanian “Guy Ritchie” - Emilis Velyvis.
It is absolutely hilarious and it’s geared as much to the Western crowd, as to Eastern European.
Edit: posted wrong link initially
Comment by macrowe777 at 18/05/2021 at 04:21 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
From my experience, those who are racist towards eastern Europeans are highly likely to be racist towards other minorities as well - but those within lower income groups are more likely to feel themselves in competition with eastern Europeans financially, which ultimately is one of the major reasons why people seek out bigotry (to distinguish themselves from the minority).
Comment by [deleted] at 18/05/2021 at 11:22 UTC
8 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I will never forget the moment in Question Time when an audience member wanted to ask a panel member a question regarding the xenophobia she had experienced as a polish citizen and a british national, and during her emotional speech, she was interupted abruptly by David Dimbleby who asked her with a straight face "HOW" had she been discriminated against! As if there was a certain qualifying criteria for discrimination. But clearly according to him there was, being eastern european didnt count in his eyes. It was so infuriating when he asked that!
Comment by sdzundercover at 18/05/2021 at 02:48 UTC
24 upvotes, 1 direct replies
This might sound too simplistic but I genuinely think it’s true.
Eastern European’s don’t complain.
Other immigrants particularly African immigrants have voiced their opinions and displeasure with their situation largely pushed by African Americans doing it first and this just passed down. I don’t think I’ve seen one Polish protest or anything of the sort. I think East Asian discrimination is also overlooked for this very reason, they don’t complain either. Eastern European’s, East Asian and to a lesser Extent East Africans (I don’t see Ethiopians, Eritreans or Somalis voice themselves much either) seem to care more about integration than anything else. Whether or not this is a good or bad thing, idk I just think it’s what it is.
Comment by [deleted] at 17/05/2021 at 19:23 UTC*
26 upvotes, 2 direct replies
The Polish/Eastern Europeans blend in extremely well in Britain from personal experience. Its actually hard to tell if a persons English or Polish unless they explicitly tell you so.
Comment by denijeur at 18/05/2021 at 04:01 UTC
14 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'm Ukrainian, I have lived in the UK for 8 years already. My wife is also Ukrainian, and our kids are in school (a nine year old and a six year old). To be honest, I was confused by your post and your comments a bit because I have never felt discriminated in any way. Asked my wife about it - she has the same impression. We are happy with our jobs, our neighours, happy with kids' schools and with the attitude of anyone we've ever spoken too.
I wonder why our experience is so different from yours? I know some children are bullied at school, it's a huge problem, and if you stand out and have something that is easy to pick on (some facial features, a "funny" name, "weird" parents with an accent) some children will notice it and can make fun about it. It hurts, it's sad, but I don't think it's xenophobic. Schools need to work on bullying in general.
Anyway, good luck to you, I wasn't trying to be confrontational, sorry if it sounded like I was arguing with you, just being curious about other Eastern European experience.
Comment by TrueSpins at 17/05/2021 at 19:40 UTC*
65 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Same reason East Asians are. Because they don't come with much religious baggage, tend to work hard and do quite well, economically speaking. They are also happy to make friends with those outside their cultural circle, including dating.
As such they are ignored entirely by the media and those pushing diversity agendas. I assume because they're not a very good example of of how British society apparently oppresses foreigners. They also tend to like the UK, which again makes them a poor poster boy for those that want to remind us how awful the place is.
About 10 years back I remember there was a tabloid supported wave of "they're stealing our jobs" nonsense, particularly in the trades. But people soon realised they were getting the jobs because they worked harder and did the work to a higher standard. Our slightly less motivated indigenous workforce realised that rather than moaning they might actually have to compete...
I think most people nowadays hold Eastern Europeans in quite high regard.
Comment by [deleted] at 17/05/2021 at 19:40 UTC
67 upvotes, 6 direct replies
Usually Eastern Europeans are head down, hard working and integrate. No issues with religion or cultural clashes.
Similar to Chinese and Indian migrants, I'd say the majority of people have a positive view of these groups for sure.
Obviously there are a few wankers who are rude and possibly racist, but in general people have been open and welcoming I feel?!
Comment by Apophis41 at 19/06/2021 at 23:22 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Is it simply because theyre white?
It does seem a lot of activists follow a simplistic narrative that all europeans are privileged, evil and non europeans are oppressed. Its rather condescending, not to mention ignorant, ignoring theres many developed countries with non white majorities like japan, korea or the gulf states, that have high living standards.
Its also lead to very selective outrage and criticism. Such as the, justified, condemnation of eastern european countries for homophobic and bigoted laws while being giving much less attention to far worse abuses in islamic countries.
Or, hell, just their attitude to history. Acting like its a simply narrative that the whole of europe abused the entirety of the world. Ignoring many european countries never had empire, were themselves a colony of an empire, like finland, ireland, romania and most of south east europe who were rendered vassals of the ottomons, ukraine etc, things like the people enslaved by the Barbary pirates, crimean khanate. Which is ironically a highly anglocentric point of view.
Comment by MadeIndescribable at 17/05/2021 at 19:39 UTC
17 upvotes, 1 direct replies
However, there is very little representation in the media of Eastern Europeans. Whereas for example, Pakistanis had 'Citizen Khan'. And many BAME characters are represented in British soap operas or in media generally.
Two things spring to mind, the first is that there possibly aren't enough Eastern European writers, producers, actors, etc who would be able to make shows about Eastern Europeans? From the few people I've met most come here to work in order to earn money, rather than follow a creative passion that they would (presumably) be better off doing in their native country/language? Added to this, I doubt the commissioners would see enough of a core European audience to fund these shows (or consider it too much of a risk in alienating who they consider to be their "traditional" audience.)
Also, at least as far as the commissioners are concerned, I'm sure not many would see the need for this kind of diversity as they would consider Eastern European immigrants as "white" and therefore are already represented on TV. Or at least that's how they'd justify it to themselves anyway.
Comment by KaiserShauzie at 18/05/2021 at 06:29 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'm in Scotland and I'd definately say your far more likely to be racially abused here for being Slavic than any other people . I work on sites and it's fucking everywhere. "ooh they're stealin oor jobs". Aye pal, you lost out on a job to someone who hardly speaks English. Says a lot more about you really. Dick.
I don't know how they put up with it like. Guys don't even give a fuck. At least people who don't like blacks or Indians etc generally keep it quiet. The anti Slavic lot are savages though. Because the target is white they don't even feel ashamed about pulling them up in public.
Comment by MultiMidden at 18/05/2021 at 08:38 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Simple answer: they're white and UKIP, EDL, DM etc. realised they wouldn't face accusations of racism if they complained about too much immigration from Poland etc. Just imagine for one second if people complained about too many Indians, there would rightly be uproar. Because of that for some people Polish/EU immigrants became code for all immigrants (especially Muslims).
Also *some* BAME activists don't give a shit if the person getting racist abuse is white. One reason for that I think is that *some activists* don't like the fact that a simple name change and Jan Kowalski becomes John Smith and if they have a reasonable British accent no one will ever question "where they're really from", they're just seen as White British.
I had 'Polish' mates at school whose family members fought in WW2 alongside the British and they faced hostility/racism after settling in the UK in the 1940's. Sadly the thing that stopped that was immigration from the commonwealth and the focus of the vitriol changed.
Comment by [deleted] at 18/05/2021 at 12:09 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I was told that if I don't like London rents that I should get back to where I came from in a work setting. When I complained about it to the person's manager there was little sympathy for how much that was disrespectful especially since this was done in front of other people and meant as "only a joke" This was a big company where a lot of people are from everywhere. In the end I left the place.
Comment by [deleted] at 17/05/2021 at 21:37 UTC*
12 upvotes, 0 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by jayohaitchenn at 18/05/2021 at 06:16 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'm a straight, white, British male and I was bullied at school too mate. You've openly admitted you haven't really experienced discrimination since. I don't want to diminish your experience, but in my experience, white immigrants from Europe are treated immeasurably better than most other ethnic minorities in this country.
Comment by FreeEasterEgg at 18/05/2021 at 08:23 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
A lot of people are overlooked. Eastern Europeans might well be the most glaring example, but there are others like Irish Travellers.
Even Americans face a lot of anti-American xenophobic bigotry in the UK. (I know from my partner.)
There is a feeling that you can't be racist/bigoted against white people except Jews. It is total bollocks, of course.
I think the "identity politics" singling out of special groups has just been horrible, because inevitably it will lead to missing out victimised groups, of which there could be an infinite number.
The only solution is to base your politics on *universal principles,* like the right of everyone to be treated fairly. We need more overall moral development, less knee-jerk wokeness about a very limited number of issues.
Comment by hotmailcompany52 at 18/05/2021 at 08:46 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I was bullied for being half german and for having long hair so I think it happens to anyone different :/
Comment by Ssimboss at 18/05/2021 at 10:49 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Russian here. Never felt being discriminated. (Even when I was excluded from one event for diversity reasons for being white male😂). I guess we just don’t get offended because of the culture&environment we grew up in.
Comment by munkijunk at 18/05/2021 at 12:07 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Am Irish and also experience a low level bigotry in this country, and we do have representation. The problem is quite a large wedge of the British public see portrayals of absurdist stereotypes like in Father Ted as being a licence to mock Irish people with those stereotypes. Nothing quite as bad as the treatment Eastern European friends of mine have experienced here or in Ireland, but just saying that that representation is not going to solve the problems with some in this countries attitude to non British/English people.
Comment by turncoat_shithead at 18/05/2021 at 13:01 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
on the topic of diversity, we got BBC Asian radio for that minority group but there is no BBC Irish for the Irish ex-pat community in the UK, which could be a great hub for discussing the cost of horses etc etc