https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/neoj5g/why_are_eastern_europeans_overlooked_when_it/
created by redwhiterosemoon on 17/05/2021 at 18:54 UTC*
208 upvotes, 38 top-level comments (showing 25)
I think often Eastern Europans struggles and xenophobia they face are overlooked in the UK.
I know that Eastern European are much more recent migrants than the ones that came from the formal British colonies such as India. Although, there was some migration to the UK from Poland to the UK after Second World War. The migration from Eastern Europe in large numbers really started after Poland and other Eastern European nations joined the UE. Currently, Polish people are the second largest group of foreign-born citizens after Indians. There is also a sizable community of Rumanians, Lithuanians, Slovaks and other Eastern Europeans.
However, there is very little representation in the media of Eastern Europeans. Whereas for example, Pakistanis had 'Citizen Khan'. And many BAME characters are represented in British soap operas or in media generally.
And while Eastern European might experience different discrimination than Black-British or Indian-British their experience should not be minimalized.
I have a lot of Eastern European friend (Polish and Rumanians) who complain a lot about discrimination. I have witnessed how people treat Eastern Europeans. It is also interesting that I have witnessed a lot of discrimination towards Eastern Europeans from other migrants.
In my opinion, sometimes people are more comfortable with being xenophobic towards Eastern Europeans because they are white so it isn't racist, of course, it is xenophobic but somehow in the mind of some people this is 'allowed'. Whereas they are careful not to say anything offensive to BAME person. Also, Eastern Europeans do not usually talk about the discrimination they face.
This is from the Guardian article[1]:
​
I could write a lot about this topic but I will stop here.
​
Here are some interesting articles about this topic:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/03/09/incomplete-europeans-polish-migrants-experience-of-prejudice-and-discrimination-in-the-uk-is-complicated-by-their-whiteness/[2][3]
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/22/xenophobic-bullying-souring-lives-of-east-european-pupils-in-uk[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish%5C_sentiment[6][7]
6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish%5C_sentiment
7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish_sentiment
​
"As a result, the Coalition of Communities of Color has formally recognized the Slavic community as a community of color. The experiences of the Slavic community have much solidarity with other communities of color." (page 7)
Link: https://www.portlandoregon.gov/oehr/article/713232[8][9]
8: https://www.portlandoregon.gov/oehr/article/713232
9: https://www.portlandoregon.gov/oehr/article/713232
Comment by CreativeWriting00179 at 18/05/2021 at 00:16 UTC*
77 upvotes, 5 direct replies
I've discussed it before, but, as a Polish man with a pronounced accent (been in the UK for half my life, but I can't get rid of it), the prejudice I face is less about *being* Polish, but more about the fact that a lot of people take it as a sign of me being working class and treating me as such.
The thing is, class-based prejudice in the UK is so huge a problem that it completely eclipses the immigrant aspect of the social issues I've faced with living in the UK. They are still there, but they mostly boil down to interactions with xenophobic individuals, rather than systemised classism that makes life difficult for both myself and my English friends in equal meassure. Even the latest proposals to change higher education have roots in this mindset— they are attempting to reduce its value to a single objective of maximising productivity of UK's population, thus perpetuating a system where those who have money and connections will get to live more aspirational lives than those of us who the state "has to take care of".
The only time where being Eastern European has been a problem that went beyond an individual that took issue with my heritage would be in the aftermath of the Brexit referendum, where a significant chunk of Leave voters interpreted the result as a tacit permission to treat foreigners as scum. Whether it was dealing with Home Office at the time, or looking for work, the difference was palpable in how I was treated BEFORE the vote. Thankfully, that sentiment seems to have fizzled out.
EDIT: Some people have taken me sharing my *personal* experiences with prejudice as proof that classism is somehow more important than other socio-economic inequalities in the UK. I did not share my story for it to be weaponised against people facing other forms of prejudice. This very subreddit had plenty of stories in the last two months that would be unlikely to happen to me on the basis that I'm neither a woman nor a person of colour (or at least am not treated as such, until I open my mouth). Nor is it okay to say that we should abandon other causes, such as trans rights, just because you determined classcism to be bigger, or affecting more people. I have never been denied healthcare or other rights on a basis of my class, the way trans people are denied them on a basis of their gender, and to argue that their plight is less important because it statistically affects less people completely misses the point of fighting prejudice and inequalities. This isn't a zero-sum game, where a discussion of gender will mean that a discussion of class will no longer be had, and an attitude to treat it as such leads only to groups that should be allies in the effort to fight said inequalities, to fight against each other instead.
Comment by Spiz101 at 17/05/2021 at 21:38 UTC
114 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Because most diversity campaigners in the UK just lift their approach directly from their US contemporaries.
Comment by callumjm95 at 17/05/2021 at 19:58 UTC
133 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Because they're white?
Comment by TheSlitheredRinkel at 17/05/2021 at 23:54 UTC
12 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Hello friend,
I am from two different ethnic minority backgrounds, and my girlfriend is Eastern European. I am fascinated by this issue.
To answer your question about representation and why you don’t have it - it’s because you’re the generation who will be the representatives! Your parents will have arrived in this country, not having known the ‘system’; you and your siblings will be the bridge between ‘british’ culture and your polish heritage, and you and others from your generation will start writing books, films etc about the lived experience of the British Polish community. I see this with my girlfriend and her family.
If you’re anything like my family, you as a second generation immigrant might feel a little awkward your Polish background, given how you’ve had social pressures to ‘fit in’ - this was certainly the pattern with my mother and with my girlfriend and their backgrounds. Your children (third generation - like me) will definitely celebrate your background. The primary means by which we do this is food!
Re. BAME - I’ve heard conflicting things about representation of white ethnic minority groups under this term. At work, I was told these groups aren’t included under the ‘BAME’ umbrella - which doesn’t make any sense to me. But I’ve been told elsewhere this is incorrect. So please keep educating people when you see this.
I hope this is helpful and doesn’t come across as patronising or silly.
All the best!
Comment by [deleted] at 17/05/2021 at 20:06 UTC
43 upvotes, 4 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by leviathaan at 17/05/2021 at 21:31 UTC*
7 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Romanians have been represented in the media in "The Romanians are coming" show on ~~the beeb~~ Channel 4.
Comment by lawrencelucifer at 17/05/2021 at 19:25 UTC
34 upvotes, 2 direct replies
It's a puzzler. I know an ethnic Pole who got refused work at the BBC because they wanted to increase their use of ethnic minority freelancers and Poles didn't count.
Comment by pablodiegopicasso at 18/05/2021 at 02:12 UTC*
4 upvotes, 2 direct replies
For Context: I have an American Dad and an Eastern European mother. I'm from London.
For media: We haven't really had the time to have significant cultural influence. Indians, Africans, etc have have been substantial minorities for generations. From my understanding Eastern European immigration only jumped after EU accession. The first big wave of British born/early-age arrival eastern europeans are in uni now. It's going to take a few years at least for Antoni Dawid to get a BBC Three series. I do however vaguely remember a couple side characters in CBBC shows with Polish dads (both handy-men, of course...)
For discussion about discrimination: People on this sub hate the idea of similarities between race-relations here and the UK, but the integration of Polish people into Britain seems like it will go the same way as their integration in the US. They will go from being othered to their kids being indistinguishable from White Brits in pretty much any casual interaction they have. Their last name will either be Anglicized, familiarized to the general population, or some combo of the two. They will speak english in the regional accent.
P.S: I was bullied in primary for having an American accent. In a school where 50% learn english as a second language. Primary schoolers are just really mean.
P.S.S: just to be clear I didn't intend to equate my bullying experience to xenophobia/classicism/homophobia that some might experience throughout their lives.
Comment by [deleted] at 17/05/2021 at 21:45 UTC*
11 upvotes, 1 direct replies
That is unfortunately true.
I am Polish myself who came to UK about 8 years ago for a degree. Even though I am educated and a valuable asset for a British economy (by that I mean that I actually work rather than claim benefits for a whole life) some British people treat me like a complete retard.
When I speak over a phone with my landlady for instance and I cannot hear what she says (sometimes phones like to be fuzzy) she repeats very slowly or shifts to very basic english...and it happens at all times.
Once I was almost beaten up by some drunk chavs in a local pub (it was 10am for gods sake) and I guess that a fact that I don't look and sound Polish saved me from having at least a black eye.
Also, it happened to me couple of times that British woman completely changed an attitude towards me upon finding out where I am originally from even though she enjoyed initial conversation with me. It never happened with other nationalities.
I guess Eastern Europeans are just a whipping boy.
Comment by jesusbleedingchrist at 18/05/2021 at 04:28 UTC
7 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Are you sure it's the Pole in you being discriminated against, not the American?
Comment by FlappyBored at 17/05/2021 at 19:13 UTC*
12 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The representation thing is likely down to how recent the migration wave is like you stated.
It���s also likely down to the impression of Eastern European migration or EU migration in general where it is mostly viewed as temporary migration for work and not migration of people coming here to settle fully so are still seen as ‘polish in a Britain’ and not ‘British polish’ if you get what I mean?
This will likely improve over generations like it did for Asians and afro-Caribbean migrants. I feel like I see more polish and other Eastern European food items in stores now so it takes a while for the culture to filter through
I disagree that discrimination about Eastern European is accepted. They general face the same sort of issues all new migrants faced when they started immigrating. Which is raised as a problem by some and said to just be ‘sjw woke nonsense’ from others. If you were around for the Brexit saga you’d have seen how this played out quite visibly in British society. Anti-European sentiment from Brexiteers was quite heavily criticised by many from what I remember.
The discrimination you mentioned from ‘other migrants’ is likely to the impression people have of Eastern European’s being quite racist due to things like Fidez and Orban, PiS, skinheads etc. So likely some level of mistrust is there from that.
You need to remember that many Brexiteers and the right wing have spent decades casting you as benefit scrounging violent thugs that are ruining Britain and stealing our jobs and people who fought against these mistruth’s were labelled as ‘traitors’ and ‘sjw woke lefties’ so it will take a time for impressions to change.
Comment by famasfilms at 17/05/2021 at 21:24 UTC
7 upvotes, 0 direct replies
As someone who spent a fair bit of time in Warsaw last year, and the first ten weeks of this year there.
Poles look at Ukrainian immigrants in exactly the same way we look at Polish immigrants.
Ukrainians and Belarussians drive the ubers etc
Comment by TantrumZentrum at 17/05/2021 at 19:19 UTC
4 upvotes, 3 direct replies
To be honest, the only Eastern European character that I can remember being on the telly was the nanny in Jack Dee's comedy, Led Balloon. I have a very Eastern European name, but am Canadian, so all I get usually is "but where are you REALLY from?", which can be annoying, but wouldn't call it racism. I'm just rambling now, but it would be good to get more Europeans in the media generally. Although, who knows, maybe that would increase the overall discrimination levels? Or it could be just the skin colour thing...
Comment by [deleted] at 17/05/2021 at 21:19 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
As an Eastern European myself I had a lot of "funny" stories. This is especially the case for smaller towns, bigger cities especially London are OK.
Comment by HazelCheese at 17/05/2021 at 21:40 UTC
24 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm mind blown by these comments tbh. Since when have "woke" or lefties being ignoring abuse of Eastern Europeans?
Are we forgetting the multiple year spree of newspapers and pundits harping on about Romanian crime gangs that the left was trying to call out?
Or before the issues with Syria how most anti immigration sentiment was to do with people being afraid of Polish immigrants stealing their jobs?
The left has been fighting this since Blair / Brown and never stopped. There is some significant rewriting of reality going on in the comments here.
Comment by Chazmer87 at 17/05/2021 at 19:25 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think the real answer is time. It's just more recent, but there's already *some*. There's an Eastern European girl on coronation street that I can recall off the top of my head.
Comment by [deleted] at 18/05/2021 at 06:31 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Eastern Europeans don’t tend to carry any victimhood status even when they are hard done by - similar to the Chinese. The fact they work very hard , ambitious and do well for themselves when given any opportunity puts them under the radar.
They are typically perceived more as a threat to someone’s job (or relaxed work ethic within a job) than a group to help even further.
The group people should most be worried about are working class white boys who statistically are floundering in the post-industrialised world and also have cultural issues that hold them back (unlike Eastern Europeans) but people care zero for them
Comment by [deleted] at 18/05/2021 at 10:08 UTC
2 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Well, from my experience of Eastern European colleagues (white collar jobs), they definitely tend to be quite racist themselves. Most of the blokes I worked with had some terrible views about other minorities. Some of them quite comical, almost The Sun-esque. So it’s hard to sympathise.
Comment by Nacho_novo at 17/05/2021 at 21:31 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Because there's not many of them in the US and this stuff largely comes from the US hence the significant focus on black people in diversity programmes over other minorities that make up a much larger share of the UK population.
Comment by InoyouS2 at 17/05/2021 at 20:34 UTC
11 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Because the race warriors claiming to be trying to make the world a better place literally only care about your skin tone. If you happen to have a lighter skin tone it doesn't matter what kind of misfortunes or oppression you've experienced, according to the social justice doctrine, you are privileged.
Meanwhile the literal Duchess of Sussex is touring America talking about how hard her life has been because she looks very slightly tan.
We life in an age of anti-logic now. What is terrifying is the amount of people that actually believe this nonsense somehow leads to a better world. Those people unironically label themselves as "woke".
Comment by [deleted] at 17/05/2021 at 20:30 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Although, there was some migration to the UK from Poland to the UK after Second World War.
The UK was quite lucky to get the Polish Air Force at their disposal during the Battle of Britain.
Comment by [deleted] at 18/05/2021 at 00:24 UTC
3 upvotes, 2 direct replies
The Slavs have been oppressed and had literal genocide campaigns against them and yet they are white privilege
Comment by mistertotem at 17/05/2021 at 21:04 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Because the racism hype is more or less copied from the US, and there are less Eastern Europeans there. /thread
Comment by CJKay93 at 18/05/2021 at 01:36 UTC*
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
In my experience it only really exists amongst working class cultures. I think even amongst middle-class blue-collar workers there's an understanding that they're very often abused and subject to shitty pay and conditions, but I suspect there's a deeply-imprinted impression that all Eastern Europeans are just opportunists.
I had a painter/decorator come in the other day, and when I mentioned I wasn't happy with the job of the last bloke his first question was "was he one of them Eastern Europeans?". Good thing my Lithuanian other half wasn't home.
A disturbing number of people also confuse Romanians with Roma gypsies.
Comment by in-jux-hur-ylem at 18/05/2021 at 10:33 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
If you embrace the culture of this country, you'll be accepted by the vast majority of people.
If you want to live in localised cliques and refuse to learn the language or participate in the communities then you'll find yourself less welcome.
Same is true for any part of life or country.