https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/plq6fm/discussion_uw_control_in_mid_standard_2022/
created by iunoionnis on 10/09/2021 at 17:58 UTC*
35 upvotes, 9 top-level comments (showing 9)
Is UW Control a viable deck for the new standard? While UW Control has several things going for it, the deck also seems to have a lot of empty space right now, requiring us to look for significant filler. So let’s start by looking at the good, the maybe, and the bad from the recent set.
[[Fateful Absence]] Prime low-cost removal, instant speed, hits creatures and planes walkers, and our opponent has to sink mana into a clue to actually gain card advantage of this, meaning that they’re often cracking open the clue when we’ve already swept ahead in card advantage. We are playing four of these.
[[Memory Deluge]] This is our draw spell, and most of the time it’s a Fact or Fiction where we get to choose two out of four. When we flash it back, however, it’s a huge card selection spell, comparable to [[Dig Through Time]]. 3-4 copies.
[[Consider]] This is our [[Opt]], letting us filter through our deck by cantripping it at the end of our opponent’s turn. We’re gonna be running four of these.
[[Malevolent Hermit]] We don’t want to play this in the main deck, but it’s a possible sideboard card against control mirrors because we can sac it to counter a spell and then bring it back from the graveyard to lock our opponent out of countermagic until they deal with it. We can also put it in the graveyard with [[Consider]] to bring it right back to slow down countermagic. The main thing holding back this card is that it doesn’t have flash, meaning that we have to set it up on our main phase. If we’re alreading boarding [[Test of Talents]] and [[Negate]], do we really want this?
[[Revenge of the Drowned]] Expensive for four mana, but it’s instant speed blue removal and trades for an opponent’s card. The card comes back again next turn, but since they are drawing it, we don’t lose card advantage like when we play a boomerang. The zombie doesn’t add anything to our strategy, so we’re not going to count it as an upside, but might consider playing this card as a one-of in certain situations, just to add some extra instant-speed removal to our deck.
[[Dissipate]] The two blue mana isn’t a problem for us, and since our deck is lacking in filler right now, we might bring a few of these into the deck. It exiles, which can be very nice against graveyard strategies. This card is a meta call or filler.
[[Borrowed Time]] The card is slow and costs three mana, but it gets rid of any non-land permanents. This card is a meta call or filler.
[[Sunset Revelry]] This is a sideboard card that we should consider bringing in against aggro decks because it gives us four life and two blockers. The biggest problem with this card is the sorcery speed, which might mean it doesn’t make the sideboard cut.
[[Secrets of the Key]] Haven’t tested this out, but it creates some mana sinks and only costs one, so I’m just mentioning it so we remember that it exists. It could play a role in a really slow, grindy meta.
[[Delver of Secrets]] Seems like it doesn’t fit into the theme of our deck, but most of the time, we play this card and untap on turn 2 with a 3/2 flyer. This can be really strong much of the time, as our opponents have to deal with this while also dealing with our countermagic plan.
[[Vanquish the Horde]] We don’t want to pay six mana to destroy two creatures, especially when we can do this for five mana with [[Doomskar]]. Oh but wait! If they have four creatures on the board, you can play this for four mana! Yeah, but the reason we want a four mana wrath is because we want to play it on turn four. If they have four creatures on the board on turn four, this means we haven’t been interacting with the board for these turns so that we can play this at a lower rate. If we are skipping out on interaction to get a discount, why don’t we just foretell Doomskar during one of these turns and get a bigger discount? The card is bad. Very bad.
[[Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset]] This card has been pretty worthless in playtesting. In our deck, the +1 ability makes it a mana dork that costs four and gains us two life. On curve, however, this just lets us play [[Consider]] on the same turn and nothing else. Off curve, it’s not worth it. The -2 ability lets us anticipate twice, or anticipate once while soaking up some damage. If we play this card, it’s a one-of.
[[Lier, Disciple of the Drowned]] We want to be able to play counterspells to win, and this shuts off our counterspells. Shutting off our counterspells also means that we can’t protect this card.
[[Faithful Mending]] I feel like I shouldn't have to say this on here, but I have seen too many people saying "this card is great in UW Control!" or playing it in UW Control brews. This is card disadvantage. It is literally trading three cards for two cards and some life. "Oh, but it lets you get rid of bad cards in your hand and replace them with good cards!" So does taking a mulligan. "Oh, but it lets you get rid of cards that aren't good in a matchup" Sideboard better. "Oh, it lets you dig." Motherfucker, have you seen Memory Deluge? We don't want to be playing this card: it's trash in control and is made for combo decks or graveyard strategies.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/4288722#paper
Legion Angel x1
Iymrith, Desert Doom x2
~~Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset x1~~ (The card is just as terrible as I thought it would be, if not worse)
Mordenkainen x2
Alrund's Epiphany x1
Borrowed Time x2
Consider x 4
Disdainful Stroke x1
Dissipate ~~x1~~ x2
Doomskar x4
Emeria's Call x1
Fateful Absence x2
Jwari Disruption x4
Memory Deluge x4
Revenge of the Drowned x1
Saw It Coming x4
Silundi Vision x1
Deserted Beach x4
Faceless Haven x2
Hall of Storm Giants x1
Hengegate Pathway x4
Snow-Covered Island x7
Snow-Covered Plains x4
Sideboard:
Divine Smite x2
Legion Angel x3
Malevolent Hermit x2
Negate x2
Portable Hole x3
Sunset Revelry x1
Test of Talents x2
Comment by DeeBoFour20 at 10/09/2021 at 19:26 UTC
20 upvotes, 4 direct replies
I'm just not sure what the advantage to playing white over black is. In the past, white has been played for Teferi, wraths, and lifelinking finishers (think Dream Trawler or Baneslayer to help stabilize against aggro.) The new Teferi doesn't seem particularly worth switching colors for and I'm not aware of any white lifelinker worth playing either.
That just leaves Doomskar which is a good card but black has access to some good sweepers too in [[Shadow's Verdict]] and [[Blood on the Snow]]. Plus, black has better single target removal, access to discard spells, and better planeswalkers in [[Lolth, Spider Queen]] and [[Professor Onyx]].
Comment by foofmongerr at 10/09/2021 at 19:36 UTC
19 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Its extremely hard to design good control decks prior to a big rotation. You need to see what the aggro and mid range meta turns into so you can figure out what you are trying to control.
Your best bet is to wait a few weeks, see what decks start to dominate, and design your control decks to contain the beatdown.
Comment by Purity_the_Kitty at 10/09/2021 at 21:52 UTC
4 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Memory Deluge is interesting; it's a better but less save-your-ass Behold, putting you more in a position where you absolutely want to mull hands without turn 2 interaction. Maybe that's The True Way here, both for UW and UB?
Consider is interesting, yeah. I almost think it's more of a Blood on the Snow kind of card, but it's probably good everywhere.
I think Flip the Switch might be underrated, it's usually going to be a counter that burns. It's not bad.
Comment by MTGCardFetcher at 10/09/2021 at 17:59 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Fateful Absence[1] - (G)[2] (SF)[3] (txt)[4]
Memory Deluge[5] - (G)[6] (SF)[7] (txt)[8]
Dig Through Time[9] - (G)[10] (SF)[11] (txt)[12]
Consider[13] - (G)[14] (SF)[15] (txt)[16]
Opt[17] - (G)[18] (SF)[19] (txt)[20]
Malevolent Hermit[21]/Benevolent Geist[22] - (G)[23] (SF)[24] (txt)[25]
Test of Talents[26] - (G)[27] (SF)[28] (txt)[29]
Negate[30] - (G)[31] (SF)[32] (txt)[33]
Revenge of the Drowned[34] - (G)[35] (SF)[36] (txt)[37]
Dissipate[38] - (G)[39] (SF)[40] (txt)[41]
Borrowed Time[42] - (G)[43] (SF)[44] (txt)[45]
Secrets of the Key[46] - (G)[47] (SF)[48] (txt)[49]
Delver of Secrets[50]/Insectile Aberration[51] - (G)[52] (SF)[53] (txt)[54]
Vanquish the Horde[55] - (G)[56] (SF)[57] (txt)[58]
Doomskar[59] - (G)[60] (SF)[61] (txt)[62]
Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset[63] - (G)[64] (SF)[65] (txt)[66]
Lier, Disciple of the Drowned[67] - (G)[68] (SF)[69] (txt)[70]
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
2: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fateful%20Absence
3: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/18/fateful-absence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
6: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Deluge
7: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/62/memory-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
10: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dig%20Through%20Time
11: https://scryfall.com/card/c21/119/dig-through-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
14: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consider
15: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/44/consider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
18: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opt
19: https://scryfall.com/card/m21/59/opt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
24: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/61/malevolent-hermit-benevolent-geist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
27: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Test%20of%20Talents
28: https://scryfall.com/card/stx/59/test-of-talents?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
31: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Negate
32: https://scryfall.com/card/znr/71/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
35: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Revenge%20of%20the%20Hunted
36: https://scryfall.com/card/avr/191/revenge-of-the-hunted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
39: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dissipate
40: https://scryfall.com/card/m15/51/dissipate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
43: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Borrowed%20Grace
44: https://scryfall.com/card/emn/14/borrowed-grace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
47: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Secrets%20of%20the%20Key
48: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/73/secrets-of-the-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
56: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vanquish%20the%20Horde
57: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/41/vanquish-the-horde?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
60: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doomskar
61: https://scryfall.com/card/khm/9/doomskar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
64: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Who%20Slows%20the%20Sunset
65: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/245/teferi-who-slows-the-sunset?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
68: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lier%2C%20Disciple%20of%20the%20Drowned
69: https://scryfall.com/card/mid/59/lier-disciple-of-the-drowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher
Comment by LateNiteRite at 11/09/2021 at 02:59 UTC
2 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[[Memory Deluge]] is what really got me on the UW Control bandwagon. Is this card not bonkers in terms of Standard power level? And then [[Doomskar]] also seems like arguably the best sweeper we've ever had in standard. UW is hype for this upcoming Standard!!
Comment by welpxD at 11/09/2021 at 05:27 UTC
2 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I feel like there has to be something to do with [[Faithful Mending]], but the UW disturb cards aren't as good as I would hope.
Comment by gramineous at 11/09/2021 at 09:34 UTC
1 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Is there a world where you lean into Vanquish The Horde to get it to being more reliable and mana efficient? You're already considering Revenge Of The Drowned, [[Startle]] and [[Flip The Switch]] give you more sources of tokens, then you have [[Poppet Stitcher]] in the sideboard you swap out with Vanquish as a slot-efficient threat against slower decks that sideboard out their own removal (vaguely reminiscent of what [[Legion Warboss]] was a few years back). You'd probably want a few other ways to leave creatures on the board, [[Ravenform]] and similar effects, maybe another Alrund's Epiphany? I'm not sure it would work out well enough, but it's an angle.
Comment by Endaarr at 12/09/2021 at 08:21 UTC*
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Not really what makes or brakes the deck, but I'm not sure x1 Alrunds is where you want to be at. The strength of it is usually chaining them and finishing of with a manland, which you cant do with one copy, and as a defensive play, I'd rather have a draw spell, planeswalker or extra removal.
+1 for the x4 Jwari Disruption, it always bugged me that most dimir list only played 3 or even less, its so good at the most critical stage of the game, early.
Edit: Almost forgot: Is Consider our Lord and Saviour? I looked at some control lists from last Standard, and they weren't running Opt, but that blue Omen (of Thassa I think?). But I guess that was just the better version of opt, since you could blink it with yorion.
Comment by DrLemniscate at 21/09/2021 at 17:46 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm banking on the MID slow-lands to help out control a lot. It can hurt if you are not able to foretell on T2, but having untapped lands after your 2nd land looks very good. Especially if the enemy cycle is printed in Crimson Vow.
Currently, slow-duals point me towards Wug or wUb. Current lands are for shards, so are centered on W and U. The extra W sources could make [[Devastating Mastery]] more reliable. And at worst it bounces a couple cards, which still buys us time. I like it much more than Vanquish for board wipes 5-6, usually costing around the same if we are interacting. Hits everything to help against Control, and personally like it more than Ondu Inversion.
Can't really do 3 color without dropping snow/manlands package. Might just use [[Devious Cover-Up]] or [[Quandrix Command]] as a wincon.
