https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1xdwba/the_history_of_the_rxkcd_kerfuffle/
created by Wyboth on 08/02/2014 at 21:58 UTC*
2148 upvotes, 89 top-level comments (showing 25)
/u/soccer was removed by a reddit admin because he was inactive for two months. /u/TheTinGuy is now the top moderator of /r/xkcd, and I am second in command. Here is the modmail,[1] and modlog[2] from when I was removed to when /u/soccer was removed, and here[3] is the /u/AutoModerator code /u/soccer had in place.
3: http://pastebin.com/Ub4sFtUR
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/r/xkcd was a perfectly normal subreddit until 2 years ago, when /u/soccer gained control of it through /r/redditrequest.[4] /u/soccer is the head moderator of /r/holocaust, which is about holocaust denialism. He is what is called a "subreddit squatter," or a person who maintains control of several subreddits without participating in them. He is currently a moderator of 72 subreddits (look at the "moderator of" list on his /u/ page to see which subreddits he moderates). A rule of /r/redditrequest is that any moderator of a subreddit who is inactive for two months can be removed by request. To avoid this, he makes a post once every two months, usually in /r/holocaust. This allows him to maintain control over his subreddits, even if the users of those subreddits object to his modship.
4: http://www.reddit.com/r/redditrequest/comments/i9hdw/requesting_rxkcd_moderator_gone_for_2_years/
I don't know how /u/soccer ran /r/xkcd in his first year-and-a-half as head mod, but at least six months ago, he added links to /r/conspiracy and /r/mensrights in the sidebar, under the section titled "Other Subreddits You Might Like." Neither of these subreddits seemed to be subreddits that xkcd fans would like, especially since Randall Munroe has posted comics which indicate he is a feminist[5] and against conspiracy theories.[6] One user noticed this, and posted a thread asking why they were linked in the sidebar.[7] /u/soccer saw the thread, removed it and many of the comments, and added /r/theredpill to the sidebar.[8] This outraged the community even more. Since there was nothing that could be done about /u/soccer, a user named /u/mattster42 created a mirror subreddit, /r/xkcdcomic, and urged /r/xkcd users to move there instead. /u/soccer saw this, and programmed /u/AutoModerator to remove any posts with "xkcdcomic" in them, as well as "sidebar," "conspiracy," "mensrights," and "theredpill," in an attempt to silence the issue, so most users would stay on /r/xkcd.
7: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1jm5dx/why_is_rmensrights_in_the_sidebar_it_has_nothing/
Here's where I come in. I was an xkcd fan for a while, and I was subscribed to /r/xkcd. About two months ago, I noticed the unfitting sidebar links. I was surprised that they were there, for the reasons I already mentioned. I looked into the head mod's post history, and discovered the holocaust-denial. I thought that xkcd deserved better than to have him as head mod and to be associated with those subreddits, so I decided I would try to have them removed. I PMed /u/soccer and asked to be modded. I told him the reason I wanted to be modded was so /r/xkcd could have a more active moderator (which wasn't really a lie; it did need some active moderation as well). To my surprise, I was invited as a moderator within five minutes of my PM. I added a pseudo-random background generator to the CSS, and made a post to inform the users that I was added.[9] (Redditlog in case that post is removed[10]) I received at least 20 comments asking me to remove the sidebar links, most of which were removed by AutoModerator (I was still able to read them). I decided that I would remove them a week later, in case /u/soccer was still active when I removed them. I PMed each commenter informing them of my decision, and instructing them to remain quiet about it. As promised, I removed all of the sidebar links 1 week later, and replaced them with the sidebar links on /r/xkcdcomic. I also removed the code for /u/AutoModerator that censored posts and comments. I received thanks for hundreds of /r/xkcd users for my actions, which inadvertently caused /r/xkcdcomic to shut down.[11] For almost two months, everything went swimmingly. I got in contact with /u/EightNote, the CSS mod of /r/xkcdcomic, and he gave /r/xkcd permission to use /r/xkcdcomic's CSS, as long as I remained a moderator.[12] I added the CSS and a new rule regarding submission titles, which were both praised by the community.
9: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1t2do0/new_moderator_new_features/
10: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/203589
11: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcdcomic/comments/1vq1ve/meta_closing_up_shop_indefinitely/
12: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1t2do0/new_moderator_new_features/cehite2?context=2
On January 26th, 2014, I tried to check /r/xkcd's mod queue, but I was shocked when I was denied access. I checked the moderators of /r/xkcd, and found to my horror that I had been removed. I quickly logged on to an alt account and made a post telling everyone I had been removed, and telling them to move to /r/xkcdcomic.[13] I also messaged the moderators of /r/xkcdcomic, telling them to re-open, which they did. My thread gained significant attention, and /r/explainlikeimfive moderator /u/anonymous123421 took it upon himself to create a petition to re-mod me and de-mod /u/soccer.[14] My first thread was removed by /u/soccer, so another user created a second one,[15] which was also removed. Many similar threads were submitted, which were all removed.[16] I contacted Randall Munroe and told him of the situation. He even signed the petition.[17] An SRD thread[18] was created, which spread even more awareness of the issue, as well as a Daily Dot article.[19] This had turned into a massive uproar. /u/soccer was overwhelmed with the posts and comments he was trying to remove, so he added a second moderator, /r/conspiracy moderator /u/Flytape. /u/Flytape is far more active on reddit, so he could remove the posts and comments more easily. He posted a thread[20] which said that everything was back to normal and there would be no more controversial sidebar links (Redditlog[21]). The community didn't buy it. /u/Flytape later removed his thread and many of the dissenting comments, even though he claimed that /r/xkcd would be a free speech zone[22] (Redditlog[23]). Soon after, the greatest SRS-hater of all time, /u/KamensGhost, was added as a moderator, presumably because /u/Flytape presumed SRSters were brigading /r/xkcd,[24] even though they had nothing to do wih it.[25] One of the mods changed where the last four subreddits in the sudebar link to.[26] /r/physics linked to /r/theredpill, /r/askscience linked to /r/conspiracy, /r/askhistorians linked to /r/holocaust, and /r/humor linked to /r/nolibswatch. /u/Flytape hiself said this wouldn't happen.[27] (Redditlog[28]) Those links were later reverted. The creator of the stylesheet that /r/xkcd was now using, /u/EightNote, replied to /u/Flytape's thread, asking for his CSS to be removed. /u/Flytape refused, saying that it would be vandalism.[29] (Redditlog[30]) I had messaged the admins a few times, and I received a response from one saying they had asked the moderators of /r/xkcd to remove the misleading sidebar links (when they were still there) and to remove the CSS. They seemed to be implying that they would not take any action to remove the moderators. A former admin voiced his dissatisfaction with the situation.[31]
13: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1w864w/new_moderator_was_booted/
15: http://reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1wacnl/why_was_the_top_post_new_moderator_was_booted/
16: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcdcomic/comments/1wclrl/rxkcd_kerfuffle_megathread/cf0qd3y
19: http://www.dailydot.com/news/xkcd-reddit-moderator-drama/
20: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1wb8ak/everything_is_back_to_normal/
21: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/203829
22: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1wb8ak/everything_is_back_to_normal/cf0e6n0
23: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/203833
24: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskFlytape/comments/1wbjyx/who_are_you/cf0hjmr
25: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskFlytape/comments/1wbjyx/who_are_you/cf0nvqm
27: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1wb8ak/everything_is_back_to_normal/cf0cvo7?context=9
28: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/203837
29: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1wb8ak/everything_is_back_to_normal/cf0fifo?context=9
30: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/203841
So, that is the history of the /r/xkcd kerfuffle. It seems like the current mods will remain in control of /r/xkcd forever, even though xkcd is Randall Munroe's intellectual property, and he objects to the moderators of /r/xkcd. I suggest that moderators of subreddits which are based on certain people's intellectual property should be removed when the owner of the intellectual property requests it, as is the case with /r/xkcd. Some people might say that would be a bad system, because it would be hard to determine which subreddits are based on intellectual property and which aren't, and it would be a broken system. However, the problems with the current system are far greater, for reasons already mentioned. Besides, it's pretty obvious that /r/xkcd is about xkcd. When there's a disputation about wheter or not a subreddit is about someone else's intellectual property, the admins could use common sense to determine whether it is or isn't.
As for /r/xkcdcomic, the way I see it is as a replacement for /r/xkcd. It's going to be about the same exact things as /r/xkcd, but with good mods. I've spoken to two of the three mods, and both seem to be very reasonable. The community is quickly growing, thanks to links to it outside of /r/xkcd, so it is already a quality substitute. As long as /u/soccer, /u/Flytape, and /u/KamensGhost are moderators of /r/xkcd, /r/xkcdcomic will be open. The thing that will help /r/xkcdcomic the most is people spreading the word of its existance and the problems with /r/xkcd. There's no way to tell the current /r/xkcd users about the problems, since any posts or coments about them will be removed. Our best hope is that they will stumble across a post about the problems with /r/xkcd's moderators in another relevant subreddit, and switch subredits because of that.
Edit: Added TL;DR.
Edit 2: Changed redditmetrics link to a comparison graph.
Edit 3: /u/Flytape has stepped down from /r/xkcd.
Edit 4: If anyone would like to help me with spreading the word about /r/xkcdcomic, please send me a PM. I could use all the help I can get.
Edit 5: 3 new moderators of /r/xkcd have been added: /u/RockChalk37, /u/waldo1412, and /u/CpnCrunch1175. All 3 are /r/WorstOfSRS posters. /r/xkcd submissions are also restricted to approved submitters only.
Edit 6: /u/CarolinaPunk has been added as a moderator of /r/xkcd. This seems odd, because he only seems to be interested in conservative politics, not holocaust denial or misogyny like the other mods. I'll keep my eye on him.
Comment by SanityInAnarchy at 09/02/2014 at 11:45 UTC
872 upvotes, 3 direct replies
It seems like there would be a fairly simple solution: Add code to xkcd.com that redirects all users coming from /r/xkcd (by referer) to a page explaining the issue, and possibly a petition.
Comment by Taiko at 08/02/2014 at 22:46 UTC
519 upvotes, 11 direct replies
Not sure that the owner of the IP should get a say in the moderators of a subreddit (or any other media) that covers it - that's a really good way to stifle criticism or discussion of competing alternatives.
But certainly, if a subreddit gets hijacked it does seem like there should be a way for the community to regain control of it. Hard to know how to do that though, I suspect any vote based system would be hugely open to rigging, not to mention probably ineffective due to lack of participation.
Comment by madeanotheraccount at 09/02/2014 at 08:55 UTC
70 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Why not ask Randall Munroe to mention /r/xkcdcomic on his site (or put a link there as 'the official XKCD subreddit'?) That alone should get a huge amount of people to shift from /r/xkcd
Comment by freedomgeek at 09/02/2014 at 11:05 UTC
19 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Oh wow. I thought some people must be fed up of the WhatIf posts in the subreddit and created a new one - I didn't know about all this.
Well I've unsubbed from /r/xkcd and subbed /r/xkcdcomic now.
Comment by DFOHPNGTFBS at 09/02/2014 at 16:18 UTC
17 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Holocaust denial makes no sense. It's one thing to deny something that happened hundreds of years ago (eg the Black Plague) but there are still thousands of people alive that can remeber the Holocaust.
Comment by gosslot at 08/02/2014 at 22:52 UTC
89 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Yeah, I read in someone rant about /u/soccer in some /r/xkcd submission quite a while ago and after I asked, what's up with him, I got told to look at his comment history. He is a really freaky dude.
Essentially I thought it was sad that /r/xkcd had such an awful moderator, but I'm not really active there. Sometimes checking in for some explanations or a decent mobile link.
Then I noticed the sidebar links (I didn't see any of the former posts) and thought "ugh". It was a damn shame.
Suddenly he grants you mod-status (I was there[1]) and it's going up-hill.
1: http://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/1t2do0/new_moderator_new_features/ce4vwx4
And now this...well, I guess I will subscribe to /r/xkcdcomic now.
Comment by [deleted] at 08/02/2014 at 22:47 UTC*
67 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by totes_meta_bot at 09/02/2014 at 04:47 UTC*
32 upvotes, 0 direct replies
This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.
[/r/xkcd] A summary of the current situation.
[/r/xkcd] Not what Randall wants. [Important PSA]
[/r/xkcd] TIL about the /r/xkcd kerfuffle!
[/r/xkcd] An interesting XKCD related story
[/r/xkcd] The history of the /r/xkcd kerfuffle
[/r/xkcd] /u/association_football must go
1: http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=totes_meta_bot
Comment by Werner__Herzog at 12/02/2014 at 15:25 UTC
8 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I would like to say, that you should consider submitting this to /r/museumofreddit, since the question of ownership really has the potential to change the rules of reddit.
I apologize if someone already mentioned this idea, but I didn't find the time to read all the comments.
Thank you for this fantastic recap!
Comment by Chevellephreak at 28/02/2014 at 14:10 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I just want to look at comics :(
Comment by [deleted] at 09/02/2014 at 16:33 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Now consider that this happens on a much larger scale.
An /r/news moderator was a white supremacist or neo nazi.
I'm still banned there for saying 'fuck you' to him, because all the other mods are down with that. Soon as he was called out and deleted his account, they re-modded a brand new one.
Seems like the ones you ran into were just a lot worse at hiding it.
Comment by graaahh at 09/02/2014 at 00:59 UTC
19 upvotes, 6 direct replies
Maybe if a significant percentage of a sub's subscribers object to a mod, they should be able to petition reddit admins to have a mod removed. Make each community more community driven that way. Like a representative democracy, but with the ability to call for a vote at any time.
Comment by imu96 at 09/02/2014 at 03:20 UTC
14 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Wow. Thanks for this. I didn't know about any of this and always wondered why /r/redpill was in the sidebar of /r/xkcd. Swapping to /r/xkcdcomic.
Comment by badbrownie at 09/02/2014 at 00:06 UTC
40 upvotes, 3 direct replies
I suggest that moderators of subreddits which are based on certain people's intellectual property should be removed when the owner of the intellectual property requests it
Bad idea. This would mean that Randall Munroe would ultimately be the super-mod of any subreddit that is about his work. So my sub-reddit, XKCDSucks would just be turned off on day one. Your suggestion that the problems you outlined at /r/xkcd are so serious that we should override basic principles of freedom of speech is comical.
There is already an existing mechanism to fix the problem you're describing and you've tried to embark on it. you start up a competing sub-reddit. I know it's not ideal (/r/xkcd will always be the default sub that a fan would subscribe to) but it works if the problem with the original sub is serious enough.
Comment by jabbercocky at 09/02/2014 at 16:08 UTC
4 upvotes, 2 direct replies
You should check out the conflict that occurred between /u/soccer and a number of users and mods from /r/badhistory.
Comment by StZappa at 03/03/2014 at 08:18 UTC
7 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Pretty sure just visiting that /r/Holocaust sub just put me on some sort of list. People are sick.
Comment by luxgladius at 09/02/2014 at 14:40 UTC*
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Never really looked into moderation policy. How were you removed as mod? Did you hit the inactivity window you mentioned? If not, why did you just not remove /u/soccer as mod when you yourself were modded? Is there a mod hierarchy?
edit: NM, found my answer[1]:
1: http://www.reddit.com/wiki/moderation
Any moderator appointed after you cannot remove you, only moderators above you that have 'full permissions' can. They can however override your bans and post removals.
The chronological order of appointment in shown vertically in the list of moderators. A moderator that is listed below you cannot remove you.
Comment by SILENTSAM69 at 28/02/2014 at 03:33 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I hate seeing subreddits get highjacked by people wanting internet power.
It sucked when it happened to r/atheism, and now it has happened here. :(
Comment by jaksida at 25/04/2014 at 16:39 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Didn't realise it was this controversial.
Comment by [deleted] at 09/02/2014 at 04:11 UTC
9 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Maybe I'm just naive, but how does this random, holocaust denying scrub get to be a moderator for so many subreddits? How low are the standards?
Comment by [deleted] at 08/02/2014 at 23:28 UTC
11 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by eldigg at 09/02/2014 at 00:23 UTC
11 upvotes, 1 direct replies
/r/SubredditDrama
Comment by [deleted] at 23/05/2014 at 15:23 UTC
7 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Look, if a massive idiot like /u/soccer does this kind of shit with a trivial thing like a fucking subreddit, imagine the things these kind of people would do with *real* power.
Comment by rosie_the_redditor at 09/02/2014 at 20:48 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Holy fuck. That's some dedication. A+
Comment by SILENTSAM69 at 28/02/2014 at 03:29 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Unsubbed here, and subbed the new one.
Conspiracy nutjobs are quite annoying.
