https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_regarding_reddits_api/
created by KeyserSosa on 18/04/2023 at 17:00 UTC
0 upvotes, 287 top-level comments (showing 25)
Greetings all you redditors, developers, mods, and more!
I’m joining you today to share some updates to Reddit’s Data API. I can sense your eagerness so here’s a TL;DR (though I *highly* encourage you to please read this post in its entirety).
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/collection/58dd0206-5f8e-4575-89a6-0134c17a17a4/
Since we first launched our Data API in 2008, we’ve seen thousands of fantastic applications built: tools to make moderation easier,[3] utilities that help users stay up to date[4] on their favorite topics, or (my personal favorite) this thing that helps convert helpful figures into useless ones[5]. Our APIs have also provided third parties with access to data to build user utilities, research, games, and mod bots.
3: https://www.reddit.com/r/toolbox/
4: https://www.reddit.com/user/RemindMeBot
5: https://www.reddit.com/user/UselessConversionBot
However, expansive access to data has impact, and as a platform with one of the largest corpora of human-to-human[6] conversations online, spanning the past 18 years, we have an obligation to our communities to be responsible stewards of this content.
Our continued commitment to investing in our developer community and improving our offering of tools and services to developers requires updated legal terms. These updates help clarify how developers can safely and securely use Reddit’s tools and services, including our APIs and our new and improved Developer Platform[7].
We’re calling these updated, unified terms (wait for it) our Developer Terms[8], and they’ll apply to and govern all Reddit developer services. Here are the major changes:
8: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/developer-terms
To ensure developers have the tools and information they need to continue to use Reddit safely, protect our users’ privacy and security, and adhere to local regulations, we’re making updates to the ways some can access data on Reddit:
Effective June 19, 2023, our updated Data API Terms[9], together with our Developer Terms[10], will replace the existing API terms. We’ll be notifying certain developers and third parties about their use of our Data API via email starting today. **Developers, researchers, mods, and partners with questions or who are interested in using Reddit’s Data API can contact us** **here**[11]**.**
9: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/data-api-terms
10: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/developer-terms
11: https://reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=14868593862164
Before you ask, let’s discuss how this update will (and won’t!) impact moderators. We know that our developer community is essential to the success of the Reddit platform and, in particular, mods. In fact, a HUGE thank you to all the developers and mod bot creators for all the work you’ve done over the years.
Our goal is for these updates to cause as little disruption as possible. If anything, we’re expanding on our commitment to building mobile moderator tools for Reddit’s iOS and Android apps to further ensure minimal impact of the changes to our Data API. In the coming months, you will see mobile moderation improvements to:
We are also prioritizing improvements to core mod action workflows including banning users and faster performance of the user profile card. You can see the latest updates[12] to mobile moderation tools and follow our future progress over in r/ModNews.
12: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/12kxfd4/mobile_moderation_on_reddit/
I should note here that we do not intend to impact mod bots and extensions – while existing bots may need to be updated and many will benefit from being ported to our Developer Platform, we want to ensure the unpaid path to mod registration and continued Data API usage is unobstructed. If you are a moderator with questions about how this may impact your community, you can file a support request here[13].
13: https://reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=14868593862164
Additionally, our Developer Platform will allow for the development of even more powerful mod tools, giving moderators the ability to build, deploy, and leverage tools that are more bespoke to their community needs.
Which brings me to…
Developer Platform continues to be our largest investment to date in our developer ecosystem. It is designed to help developers improve the core Reddit experience by providing powerful features for building moderation tools, creative tools, games, and more. We are currently in a closed beta to hundreds of developers (sign up here[14] if you're interested!).
14: https://developers.reddit.com/
As Reddit continues to grow, providing updates and clarity helps developers and researchers align their work with our guiding principles[15] and community values[16]. We’re committed to strengthening trust with redditors and driving long-term value for developers who use our platform.
15: https://www.redditinc.com/blog/sharing-our-company-values
16: https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/suvhyq/reddit_community_values/
Thank you (and congrats) and making it all the way to the end of this post! Myself and a few members of the team are around for a couple hours to answer your questions (Or you can also check out our FAQ[17]).
17: https://reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/14945211791892
Comment by KeyserSosa at 18/04/2023 at 18:54 UTC*
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
If you have any additional questions or need support, you can submit a request here.
edit: added a helpful link
Comment by ryecurious at 18/04/2023 at 17:23 UTC
360 upvotes, 3 direct replies
It is designed to help developers improve the core Reddit experience by providing powerful features for building moderation tools, creative tools, games, and more
I notice a glaring omission from this list (3rd party clients).
Just wondering if you could confirm or deny the data API changes/the Reddit Developer Platform will affect 3rd party clients.
I just ask because that's what killed Twitter for me back in 2018, when they intentionally hamstrung every 3rd party app (because the official app was much worse) with API changes.
Comment by Yay295 at 18/04/2023 at 17:08 UTC
756 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Reddit will limit access to mature content via our Data API as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed.
Why? These are data API's, not the front page. If you're using these API's, you should already know what you're getting.
Comment by iamthatis at 18/04/2023 at 17:10 UTC*
937 upvotes, 6 direct replies
How will this affect third party clients like Apollo (I'm the developer)? I see this quote:
* Our Data API will still be available to developers for appropriate use cases and accessible via our Developer Platform, which is designed to help developers improve the core Reddit experience, but, we will be enforcing rate limits.
* We are introducing a premium access point for third parties who require additional capabilities, higher usage limits, and broader usage rights. Our Data API will still be open for appropriate use cases and accessible via our Developer Platform.
What are the rate limits for third party apps now? Still 60 requests per minute via OAuth? What will the extended rate limits be?
Comment by Watchful1 at 18/04/2023 at 17:18 UTC
302 upvotes, 2 direct replies
That's a whole lot of words to not actually say what's changing.
Our Data API will still be available to developers for appropriate use cases and accessible via our Developer Platform, which is designed to help developers improve the core Reddit experience, but, we will be enforcing rate limits.
Okay so you want new bots to use the devvit platform instead of the old api, makes sense.
We are introducing a premium access point for third parties who require additional capabilities, higher usage limits, and broader usage rights. Our Data API will still be open for appropriate use cases and accessible via our Developer Platform.
So, you're planning to just completely turn off free access to the public api? People have to use the devvit platform or pay? If that's not the case could you be more specific about what is being limited to the "premium access point" and what isn't?
Reddit will limit access to mature content via our Data API as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed. (Note: This change should not impact any current moderator bots or extensions.)
Limit how? What content will be removed from what endpoints?
On the face of it this seems like the first step to disabling the public api completely, which would kill many bots whose authors don't want to rewrite the whole thing in the new platform (which is far from a trivial update). And also the start of disabling access for third party apps. As the author of many bots for many years, including u/RemindMeBot, could you please be more specific about what is actually changing.
Comment by Postpone-Grant at 18/04/2023 at 17:29 UTC
83 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Reddit will limit access to mature content via our Data API as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed.
What does this mean for third party apps where users either view or submit NSFW content? In what ways *specifically* are you going to “limit access?”
What alternatives are available for third parties who want to provide support for this content in their apps?
Comment by GarethPW at 18/04/2023 at 17:10 UTC
112 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Reddit will limit access to mature content via our Data API as part of an ongoing effort to provide guardrails to how sexually explicit content and communities on Reddit are discovered and viewed. (Note: This change should not impact any current moderator bots or extensions.)
How will this be implemented? Will it affect third-party clients?
Comment by Multimoon at 18/04/2023 at 19:43 UTC*
103 upvotes, 3 direct replies
So let’s get to the ultimate cause - it’s a slow march to make sure that there won’t be 3rd party clients that skip out on serving ads, or if they do then Reddit is paid via API fees, along with making sure everyone uses the official app via feature disparity. **See: the chat feature that we still don’t have an API for**
As a dev who’s written plenty of Reddit tools as well I get it, everyone’s gotta have cash flow.
However can I propose a simpler solution now before someone decides to just yank the API all together 3yrs from now? Why not just return the ads that you want to show as a “post” along with the actual posts in the query response. Then just add an ad=yes flag to that responses attributes so the client can mark it as an ad, along with making it against the API TOS to circumvent the ads or something similar. If an ad just becomes a “promoted post” then nothing can circumvent it easily.
I think this is a good compromise where the APIs required to make a full client will still exist years from now - because I genuinely worry that with reddits recent direction that won’t always be the case in the future - and Reddit can get their ad revenue.
Comment by Alert-One-Two at 18/04/2023 at 20:57 UTC
55 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I am really concerned about this. I am a user and a moderator of multiple large UK subreddits. I do most of this moderation via a third party app - Apollo. The first party client is just not my cup of tea and so even with improvements the design is never going to work for me. If I am unable to use Apollo I am realistically more likely to reduce my use of Reddit over time (likely reducing my moderating first of all) rather than swap to a different client (I was previously a twitter user, but stopped when they started causing problems for the developers a few years ago). Do you really want to be losing people who are willing to give up their time to support this platform?
Comment by iamgeek1 at 18/04/2023 at 17:48 UTC
151 upvotes, 4 direct replies
This is just a roundabout way of saying they're killing off 3rd party clients. They're not officially killing off the clients but they're going to make them so hard to develop and, so crippled, that they're basically useless.
I guess it's just time for me to quit Reddit. It is such a cancerous time sink anyway.
Comment by lilbro93 at 19/04/2023 at 04:32 UTC*
42 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Remember the DnD backlash from a few months ago? Reddit is about to kick a hornet's nest.
Just say you want to ban 3rd party apps. You are just passing the buck off to 3rd party apps to make them unprofitable. Officially you aren't killing 3rd party apps, but you are pushing them into a corner.
Don't use Elon's stupid decision to charge for Twitter API use as an excuse. That will fail, just as this will.
Chasing an IPO is going to destroy this site.
Comment by Saltifrass at 18/04/2023 at 17:32 UTC*
134 upvotes, 3 direct replies
If this fucks up Apollo I'm going to quit Reddit. Reddit app sucks.
Comment by zjz at 18/04/2023 at 17:26 UTC
37 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Updated Terms: The terms for developer tools and services have been updated, including Developer Terms, Data API Terms, Reddit Embeds Terms, and Ads API Terms. However, these updates should not impact moderation bots and extensions.
Are these terms updates mostly to make way for the other changes? I'm busy and I don't want to read them right now so I'm just curious.
Rate Limits: The Data API will now enforce rate limits, but it will still be available for appropriate use cases and accessible via the Developer Platform.
What will these look like? It is not a trivial thing to announce API rate limits in so little detail. I assume this applies A) to any PRAW/other utilities and bots that use the older reddit API and B) to all 3rd party clients that don't spring for:
Premium Access: Reddit is introducing premium access for third parties who require additional capabilities, higher usage limits, and broader usage rights. The Data API will remain open for appropriate use cases via the Developer Platform.
Any previews on pricing, what data is going to be made available in addition to the typical stuff, etc?
When you say "The Data API will remain open.. via Dev Platform" it sounds like it will soon be *closed* in some way and this is just a euphemistic way of saying it. Please just give it to us straight if, in a practical sense, we're going to be running into issues or having to move codebases to dev platform to have relatively request-expensive things continue to exist.
I just want to know what we're looking at and what to plan for. I'm already pretty comfortable with the dev platform, but I haven't been allowed to do everything I'd need to do over there to move most of what we're doing and I feel bad for people who make neat stuff who might not get the consideration I do because of /r/wallstreetbets.
Limited Access to Mature Content: Access to mature content via the Data API will be limited. This change should not impact current moderator bots or extensions.
I guess I get it, but again sharing some details so people don't speculate about everything is probably the move.
Comment by [deleted] at 18/04/2023 at 17:59 UTC*
41 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by jvite1 at 18/04/2023 at 21:06 UTC
36 upvotes, 1 direct replies
We are introducing premium access
So the shift comes slowly.
Comment by Ghigs at 18/04/2023 at 17:05 UTC
207 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Are you killing off third party clients and this is your roundabout way of announcing it?
Comment by theyeshman at 18/04/2023 at 18:06 UTC
29 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I'm curious how this will affect undelete sites like revedit and unddit, as well as how it will impact reddit on RSS feeds.
Comment by shiruken at 18/04/2023 at 19:05 UTC*
38 upvotes, 2 direct replies
However, expansive access to data has impact, and as a platform with one of the largest corpora of human-to-human conversations online, spanning the past 18 years, we have an obligation to our communities to be responsible stewards of this content.
[...]
We are introducing a premium access point for third parties who require additional capabilities, higher usage limits, and broader usage rights.
Finally realized you could monetize the underlying data huh? I wonder how much y'all could have charged OpenAI, Google, Meta, etc. for the text corpora used to train their LLMs.
1: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/18/technology/reddit-ai-openai-google.html
Comment by Hanhula at 18/04/2023 at 22:32 UTC
31 upvotes, 1 direct replies
What the fuck is this new rule on mature content via the API? I use old Reddit and on mobile, RiF. If I have to stop using Reddit is Fun because it won't let me look at anything tagged nsfw (you know, like a lot of AITA posts and fandom memes and such), I stop using Reddit. Please take a step back on that change - we're already authenticating with the site, just force a nsfw check like usual.
Comment by random125184 at 18/04/2023 at 21:51 UTC
29 upvotes, 1 direct replies
So now not only are you not paying your moderators to work for you, you’re charging them to do so. Brilliant!
Comment by itskdog at 18/04/2023 at 17:13 UTC
45 upvotes, 1 direct replies
With the constant experimentation on the native app, I use a third-party client (specifically r/redditisfun). Do these changes affect third-party apps, given that's just as common a use-case as mod bots and extensions like RES and Toolbox/Snoonotes, and you only addressed those last two in your post.
Comment by reaper527 at 18/04/2023 at 19:02 UTC
23 upvotes, 1 direct replies
so what does this mean for those of us who use 3rd party mobile apps like apollo rather than the trashy official reddit app?
will the devs of that program be responsible for all of its users due to these new "premium" API charges, or is that something that is going to be more relevant to bot makers?
will end users of these apps have to get our own API keys to insert into these apps to make them work?
also, what about sites like unddit/reveddit who provide transparency of the actions taken by abusive modteams?
Comment by yellowlotusx at 18/04/2023 at 19:25 UTC
22 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Sounds like they want to put the NSFW behind a paywall or subscription to please the advertisers.
Ofcourse there is so much text and distractions, its hard to filter.
Some1 should ask ChatGPT for a TLDR, but in "Eplain like im 5" way. For idiots like me.
Comment by Jizzy_Gillespie92 at 18/04/2023 at 22:36 UTC
20 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Sure does read like you're working on killing off third-party clients and that being the case, Reddit is Digg-ing it's own grave.
Comment by Jenkins26 at 20/04/2023 at 19:04 UTC
19 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Lol, reddit rose up after Digg got greedy. Now reddit will be the ones on the decline. Good luck.
