https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/d7m1c/dear_internet_vigilantes_and_lynch_mobs/
created by hueypriest on 31/08/2010 at 07:23 UTC
2785 upvotes, 100 top-level comments (showing 25)
The comments on the video of the girl throwing the puppies into a river are the impetus for this rant, but it's something that has been bothering me for a long time.
We all get mad when we see something like this, but the internet lynch mob shit only makes more pain and injustice in the world. I know it's exciting to hunt down someone assumedly evil, and cheer on the lynch mob (as I have done myself), but for every one successful evil doer you harass or bring to justice, there are many more innocent people's lives that are fucked up in the ham-fisted process. This video makes my blood boil too, especially since my own beloved mutt sleeping under my desk woke up and wondered where the puppy noises were coming from. It makes you furious, but you can't just post someone's information online in connection with something like this. I don't care if it's already on 4chan either, that doesn't make it ok to repost here or anywhere else.
I've gotten a few phone emails and calls from these wrongly accused people sometimes and it is heartbreaking. I've spoken with grown man who was crying and hiding with this scared family in a hotel room somewhere cause one of you dumb fucks posted a facebook link or phone number and now his kids know what a death threat is. The few I've interacted with have been polite (unlike the people who contact us to complain about a nekkid photo of their "friend" being linked here), and they just want the harassment to stop. Above all they are confused. They don't understand this internet world, and they have no idea why someone would do something so hateful to them.
This is not a new policy, but I just want to remind everyone that if you post someone's private info (including a link to their facebook or a link to any other site or image with their info) and one of the admins see's it we will remove it. If you keep doing it, we will ban your account. You are seriously messing with innocent people's lives and you have no right to do so.
Comment by [deleted] at 31/08/2010 at 13:20 UTC
1236 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Damn Right! Now gather up everybody, lets go get those fucking vigilante lynch mob bastards!
Comment by CornFedHonky at 31/08/2010 at 11:31 UTC
468 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Can I still post my own info if I enjoy a good stalking? I don't have a whole lot going on...
Comment by Paradox at 31/08/2010 at 07:37 UTC
1898 upvotes, 8 direct replies
Comment by ShinyCobra at 31/08/2010 at 10:16 UTC
361 upvotes, 8 direct replies
Hold on, people can call reddit?
Comment by blisstonia at 31/08/2010 at 09:44 UTC
353 upvotes, 3 direct replies
you had me at "one of you dumb fucks"
Comment by kentrel at 31/08/2010 at 09:45 UTC
868 upvotes, 4 direct replies
I don't know who this hueypriest guy thinks he is, but I've tracked down his reddit account:
http://www.reddit.com/user/hueypriest
Lets get him!
Comment by mrbubblesort at 31/08/2010 at 10:06 UTC
48 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I have a friend that was a victim of an internet witchhunt (albeit rather small). Someone posted a criminal's info online, but accidentally transposed the last two telephone numbers. Well, that incorrect telephone number happened to be my friend's, and she got shit on for about a week because of it. It wasn't too bad, but it was completely undeserved.
Simply put, think of the source where this info is coming from. Why the would you think any supposed criminal's info that's posted is legit?
Comment by [deleted] at 31/08/2010 at 17:25 UTC*
56 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Nobody will see this but I live in Iceland and we had an 'incident' a few years a go that sort of killed of internet vigilantes in this country.
Automobile-enthusiasts were having their annual festival in a town in northern Iceland, it always brings in a lot of people from around the country and is sadly also associated with teenage binge-drinking. During the same weekend, a dog goes missing in the town. Lukas was an one year old Chinese Crested dog dearly loved by his owner family.
A few days later, an e-mail whose original source remains unknown starts circulating between people, it claimed that a few young men had been seen torturing the dog and killing it by stuffing it in a duffle bag and kicking it around. The revelation sent a shockwave of righteous fury around the internets and many people wallowed in emtional pornography that even went so far that candlelight vigils were held in several places around the country. Charges were filed to the police because of the animal abuse. Some genius then believed he had identified one of these disgusting criminals and there was no going back. The rage was now concentrated on one this one guy. He received death threats, he was fired from his job and his face was plastered all over cyberspace, associated with this *most heinous crime ever committed*.
The poor guy stayed in this hell for a whole month. Then the dog was found alive and unharmed, wandering around outside the town.
Instantly, everybody who participated in the persecutions, all those anonymous internet dwellers, were re-labeled as full-on retards and condemned by the "traditional media".
Since this incident, whenever someone seems to be advocating vigilantism on web forums or blogs it is enough to say "remember Lukas the dog?" and everybody just STFU.
Comment by MoreTuple at 31/08/2010 at 12:07 UTC
40 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Rules are all well and good but can backfire dramatically. On this site and others I've seen people share personal information about someone who is feared to be suicidal in an attempt to track that individual down. I've seen many variants of this type of *helping* situation. This kind of information sharing can certainly go both ways although I'd agree that the louder and more common version (as well as the more dangerous) is the pitchfork wielding mobs.
I sincerely hope that any rules are enforced *within the context of the situation* and not simply because its a rule.
Enforcing rules simply because they are rules defeats the whole purpose of rules which is to enforce reasonable behavior.
Comment by fragaria at 31/08/2010 at 09:43 UTC
212 upvotes, 10 direct replies
I have not watched the video so I don't know if there is anything else going on beyond the girl drowning the puppies, but as far as I understand the video comes from Eastern Europe, and I'd like you to realize that this is the way people deal with unwanted puppies / kittens there all the time, especially in countryside. It's not considered to be something unusual, and although people usually do not enjoy doing it, they realize this is something that has to be done because there are so many stray animals around already. You have to realize that the very same scene is happening at this very moment, so why would you single out this particular girl? Yes, all this is really sad but if you want to somehow fix it, at least go there in person and see the situation there by yourself.
Comment by Whisper at 31/08/2010 at 08:31 UTC
585 upvotes, 7 direct replies
ITT: Hueypriest tries to change human nature with several paragraphs of text.
Comment by Beldam at 31/08/2010 at 16:11 UTC
13 upvotes, 0 direct replies
People who pull that sort of shit (posting personal contact information on the internet) have never had to live in fear, have never had to file for a restraining order, have never been stalked, and have never for a second checked their rear-view mirror to see if they're being followed. It's awful the terror they feel is their right to wield over someone they don't even know. It's a free country, sure, but you're also free to stop and think for a minute on whether what you do will negatively impact other people in regretful ways. If what someone is doing is truly against the law, and you have that personal info, report them to the police, don't send internet crazies after them, they're NOT cops and they DON'T have the right to do anything to "take care of" the situation at hand. If someone just is behaving in a way you don't like and it ISN'T illegal, get the fuck over yourself and mind your business and remember your manners. Did your mom raise you to be a bully? I'd guess not. If she did, that sucks for you, but if she didn't, act like she'd expect you to, not like a jerk.
Comment by mayonesa at 31/08/2010 at 08:19 UTC
299 upvotes, 3 direct replies
I agree.
Even more, for every one puppy thrown into a river, probably 100,000 die of neglect or get gassed in shelters.
Stop irresponsible people from owning dogs.
Comment by timbatron at 31/08/2010 at 08:30 UTC*
101 upvotes, 3 direct replies
This sort of thing happens frequently in South Korea, and it is not the sort of thing that you would want to become the norm here in the US. Read the horror stories of people whose lives were ruined by online harassment.
Consider the US legal system. One of the strongest arguments against the death penalty is the fact that the system is flawed, and many innocents are found guilty. How much more likely is it that we are mistaken about any of these issues, where our only evidence is a photo or a grainy video?
Edit: For those complaining about my use of "here in the US", I was referring to the fact that I believed the puppy drowner to be in the US, and as a US resident, this is where I see a growing problem. I don't know the trends in your country, unfortunately, and saying "here on the Internet" sounds dumb.
Comment by ameri-size at 03/09/2010 at 13:20 UTC
9 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think it goes beyond protecting collateral damage towards the wrongly accused.
I should start by saying I understand where everyone is coming from in regard to their disgust at the video of the Bosnian girl throwing puppies into a river. I have been an animal lover for as long as I can remember and I could never make any excuse for her actions. Something else bothers me nearly as much though; the death threats aimed towards this girl. Perhaps it is because of anonymity or perhaps it is some mob like kneejerk reaction spurred by a contagious rage, but when did we all start taking the “lame horse” approach towards kids? I suppose a man I met in college has shaped my opinion on the matter a bit (especially with regards to children and animal cruelty).
He was in his late 30’s and we were taking a photography class together. He had some great shots of animals so I commented on them and we got to talking which led to him telling me a story. He told me about a time when he was younger and living in (if I remember correctly) Venezuela. He was about 12 or so and with a group of friends. They decided on a whim to grab a stray cat, place it in a pillow case and beat it against cars, walls, etc until it died. While he was telling me this he was visibly embarrassed by his involvement in this and still could not come up with any reasoning for his actions. Of course, I cannot dismiss this as kids being kids. It is an awful thing to do and when I was his age there is no way I could have preformed the same horrible acts. But he is not an awful person. In fact, he has always been haunted by the fact that he could do something so awful and has adopted many animals since then. He was never punished for his actions, never had his life threatened by thousands of people. His actions were never met with anything but the laughter of his friends, yet he is not the same person. His regret of his actions grew from within and that is the part that sticks with me.
I know we are told that anyone who kills/tortures animals as a child is likely to grow up to become a serial killer, but to follow this assumption of how someone will turn out in adulthood due to their actions as a child unquestioningly is a dangerous stance to take. I cannot excuse this girls actions and I believe that if she is caught she should be punished to the extent of the law. But to call for harm to come to her or to harass her endlessly is far from an appropriate response. Personally I think mandating her to volunteer at some type of animal rescue center be in order along with what the law imposes for animal cruelty. It is easy to think of this girl as some agent of murder who will spend the rest of her life walking the streets looking for puppies to drown because this video is most likely all any of us will ever see of her.
This will never be seen but that will probably save me some down-votes due to its content.
TL;DR: Horrible actions do not guarantee a horrible person.
Comment by spook327 at 31/08/2010 at 10:54 UTC
47 upvotes, 1 direct replies
The cogitive dissonance here is pretty shocking; many among Reddit would agree that those accused of a crime should have the right to a fair trail.
But, post a video of some animal abuse, and anyone that we can lash out against is guilty, guilty, guilty.
Comment by Clbull at 31/08/2010 at 13:00 UTC
15 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I am honestly surprised you don't swing your banhammer at people the moment someone posts private info about another with the intention of giving that info to a cyber-lynch mob rather than just remove the post and give a warning the first time.
Heres some very good examples of where this "internet justice" thing has targeted the wrong people.
Several of these cruel videos have had people's phone numbers posted on 4chan/reddit/whereever and innocent people have been harassed by a bunch of /b/tards who think they're delivering justice.
An even better example that doesn't even involve a puppy/cat being abused. Remember when Blizzard were going to implement RealID on the WoW and SC2 forums? That caused a shitstorm.
What do you think happens when a blizzard employee posts his real name and challenges the community? They seemingly find him on facebook, his contact details including a telephone number and details about his relatives and then bombard this number with threats.
And in the aftermath, this guy said on Twitter that he wasn't recieving said calls. What if that was a fucking innocent person who doesn't even give a shit about WoW suddenly getting death threats and prank phone calls over a game update?
Comment by Artischoke at 31/08/2010 at 19:50 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Wow 4000 downvotes. A thread littered with 4chan-esque posts, for lack of a better word. Doesn't exactly support a belief in humanity.
Comment by [deleted] at 03/09/2010 at 01:53 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
This happens in real life as well. Some years ago in England there was mass hysteria over paedophiles, egged on by the gutter press. Can't remember why, maybe some girl had been snatched and murdered - there were a few that happened about then.
Anyway, during the mass hysteria the good folks in a housing estate (like a US housing project) in Portsmouth decided they had a paedophile in their midst. A lynch mob formed and the target had to leave his home and go into hiding. I seem to remember his place was vandalized.
Afterwards it was discovered the lynch mob had made a mistake. They had attacked a paediatrician. Someone had overheard something, assumed a paediatrician and a paedophile were the same thing, told someone else, it had snowballed. I shit you not.
Comment by tldrHaiku at 31/08/2010 at 15:17 UTC
11 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Some people are cruel
But the lynch mob does true harm
To innocent lives
Comment by PowderedToasty at 31/08/2010 at 14:10 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Agreed. This hit close to home for me once, my girlfriend and her friend were involved in an incident that got misrepresented and blown way out of proportion. Some internet fuck wad posted my girlfriend's contact info on a forum!! Luckily he got a different person with the same name, but it made my heart sink and the blood drain from my face.
Comment by pocket77s at 31/08/2010 at 16:34 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Something I've said for a long time, huey. Even when they are rightly accused, putting them at the mercy of an internet mob is irresponsible beyond belief. The offense has rarely, if ever, been equal to the response.
I still think back to the (korean?) lady who didn't clean up her dog's poop on the train. Does anyone really think the shit (no pun intended) she went through was a just punishment for such a ridiculously minor offense?
Comment by nodigg at 01/09/2010 at 04:44 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Hi Reddit,
I just moved over from digg. I’m really impressed by the comments here. I wonder what you think to my idea. If someone’s already thought it then, tell me where and I’ll cow-tow and bugger off.
I read that post by a person who worked for Reddit. They basically said, “don’t be vigilante bastards”. I’ve been thinking about it for ages. I’ve been one of those people and I felt like shit when I read it. Sometimes your parents tell you not to do stuff, sometimes random other people tell you. Either way, I knew I felt bad about it.
Do you think it’s possible to do the complete opposite? Where someone is obviously trying their best but never got a break, and then everyone gets to unleash the power of 5chan, where everyone gets together to fix that person’s life, in a mass act of collective kindness? I’m not sure exactly how it would work, but I think it would be loads of fun, and instead of screwing up people, the exact opposite would happen. That was a long sentence…sorry. I’m on the dole, but I’d give £10 just to kick it off, if someone knew how to set it up fairly. At the very least it would stop me feeling bad for being part of a “mob”.
Your ideas...
Comment by columbine at 31/08/2010 at 10:27 UTC*
37 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Finally. An administrator comment and actual policy on this is long overdue. I report any post that contains personal information intended to incite harassment. Many get cleaned up but a number do not. I hope this story indicates a more conscientious effort on the part of reddit to do something about these sorts of posts and stories.
There's nothing more disgusting than a bunch of people out for blood trying to act like they're above the law, usually based on nothing more than hints and guesses and fuelled by self-righteous rage. Leave punishment to the justice system, where people get a trial and a lawyer and are innocent until proven guilty. None of which happens when people take matters into their own hands.
Comment by [deleted] at 31/08/2010 at 11:00 UTC
34 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Hi hueypriest, I've been on reddit for more than three years now and a while ago I decided to close my old account(s) due to all the bullshit that's been happening on reddit lately, **especially** explicit requests of personal justice/real life vandalism against people who may be or may be not guilty. This peaked with two recent cases, one concerning a Hispanic man accused of animal abuse and the other the now notorious "you dun goofed up" case, which targeted a child that did nothing but be stupid on the internet (and we've all done that even as grownups), but there were countless others. I remember that at least once reddit delivered "internet justice" to a completely innocent man (maybe from Lithuania?), causing him much trouble. I want to thank you personally for trying to keep this place cleaner, especially now that 4chan's mentality is so glorified. This official statement means really a lot and I made the right choice giving reddit a second chance, thank you so much! (Still, the comments need some filtering. There's some upvoted racism in the comments, see pretty much every post about Roma people or Israel)
