Plato’s warning: Extreme inequality isn’t just unfair but inevitably leads to civil war, “the greatest of all plagues.”

https://iai.tv/articles/plato-hobbes-mill-and-the-never-ending-fight-for-inequality-auid-3079?utm_source=reddit&_auid=2020

created by IAI_Admin on 14/02/2025 at 10:51 UTC

6222 upvotes, 32 top-level comments (showing 25)

Comments

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1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

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Comment by [deleted] at 14/02/2025 at 12:19 UTC

703 upvotes, 5 direct replies

[removed]

Comment by SunbeamSailor67 at 14/02/2025 at 11:36 UTC

297 upvotes, 2 direct replies

He should know, he saw a republic fall.

Comment by Hyperion1144 at 14/02/2025 at 18:57 UTC

108 upvotes, 0 direct replies

And in case Plato is too ancient or esoteric for anyone, here's the same point in modern terms:

How Economic Inequality Harms Societies

People keep saying it because it is true.

Comment by zepong at 14/02/2025 at 13:06 UTC

75 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Yeah, however he was talking about inequallity amongst "citizens". If they were slaves...

Comment by Templer5280 at 14/02/2025 at 14:15 UTC

77 upvotes, 3 direct replies

Been telling conservative neighbors go read up on the French Revolution then tell me about the evils of “Entitlements” or “boot strap” mentality.

Comment by mindless-1337 at 14/02/2025 at 15:39 UTC

8 upvotes, 0 direct replies

The entire chapter 8 of his Politeia is interesting. He talks there about 5 different states, why they are good and why do they fall.

Comment by ktreddit at 14/02/2025 at 18:16 UTC

15 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Imagine human beings … learning. That would really be something.

Comment by qrteq at 14/02/2025 at 13:59 UTC

27 upvotes, 2 direct replies

Plato also said a lot of things about slavery that the journal probably wouldn't be so eager to publish...

Comment by TESOisCancer at 14/02/2025 at 13:51 UTC

15 upvotes, 2 direct replies

I can't say I was disappointed in the article, I knew the author was going to take things out of context.

For starters, the word "Extreme" is vague enough to be interpreted however you'd like. Is 2x wealth bad? Is 9999999999999999999999999x bad?(probably)

I just wish the quotes were more direct.

Also Plato insisted on a guardian class that sacrificed themselves for the greater good. Idealism is fun, but it's not great for application to the real world.

I'm far more interested on utilizing humans in a way that works in accordance with our genetic predispositions... Although even Machiavelli suggests weaponizing religion, so maybe we can brainwash people to be altruistic against their own interests.

Comment by Spumko at 14/02/2025 at 14:44 UTC

10 upvotes, 0 direct replies

In America, this is exactly where we are heading. We do not heed the lessons of history.

Comment by SgCloud at 15/02/2025 at 10:03 UTC

2 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Philosophically and textually a pretty weak article - I don't see, why it deserves thousands of upvotes. For example, the quote from Mill: "Great fortunes are continually accumulated, and seldom redistributed." seems be invented out of wholecloth - I can't find a source about it anywhere.

And since he's specifically named: It's not entirely unreasonable but also not to be taken for granted that Plato's writings like the Politeia (mistranslated often as "The Repulblic") are representative of his own political views. If you look at the text, the book isn't even primarily about politics - the idea of a well ordered state is taken as a comparative value of what the ideal human soul would look like.

Comment by College_student08 at 14/02/2025 at 18:46 UTC

3 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Platos: "He opted for proportional inequality in the distribution of all careers, including ruling, defense, and the provision of goods and services, on the basis of **inborn inequalities in intelligence, spirit, abilities in the arts/crafts, and appropriate education**."

So, he sees justice in inequality that arises out of traits that are just handed to people at conception, without them having to contribute anything.

Am I the only one that sees deep injequality and injustice in the fact that factors that people have no control over, either earn them applause or deep disrespect from others? I am not a philosopher, but to me it'd seem righteous if we attempted to reduce inborn inequalities, not through elimination of people that are on the left end, but through enhancement of them, in order to bring them to the right of the curve, either through genetic technologies or other enhancing tech that might be invented in the future. We try to achieve the best for our children: we provide healthcare for them, we try to send them to the best schools, we try to inspire them to think about the world. All in all we want them to grow up in an environment that fosters their brain, because we want them to be capabale. But according to all respected research available, at least 50% and maybe up to 80%, of all intellectual traits that we so deeply care about and that are so essential to success in our modern society, are entirely decided by the genome.

To me it seems obvious that genetic engineering is the next step in trying to reduce inequalities. I don't want to get into a debate about inequal distribution should that technololgy become a reality. I am from Germany, a country with universal healthcare, that would pay for such gene therapies should they arrive. You can argue that the inexistence of such system in your country would result in genetic technology increasing inequality instead of reducing it, but that is not an argument against the technology itself, but against the healthcare system that you currently live in.

Comment by Hyrue at 14/02/2025 at 21:16 UTC

3 upvotes, 1 direct replies

I wonder what Plato would think about those that would cry wolf, gaslight and use the banner of "extreme inequality" to sell their agenda.

Comment by KWalthersArt at 14/02/2025 at 20:08 UTC

1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

observation, there are different forms of inequity.

Food Deserts, lack of public transit, weather differences, employment deserts, excessive property taxes and rent, access to decent or affordable health care, practical access versus paper accesss.

These can all be an inequity and adding in that some have to self resolve creates counter weight inequities, "I got mine, I was here first, I am poor and more deserving" mentalities.

Comment by commentist at 15/02/2025 at 01:38 UTC

1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

I see some people consider extreme inequality only as rich vs poor however it can be as simple as an access to certain privileges which has nothing to do how rich you are.

Comment by surdtmash at 15/02/2025 at 03:04 UTC

1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Earlier, the rich couldn't be rich if the poor didn't work for them.

Now with machines, AI, and stocks, the rich can't be rich if the poor don't buy from them. Revolutions now would be very different.

Comment by DoctimusLime at 15/02/2025 at 03:05 UTC

1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

David graeber is a better source for this topic considering he probably has better access to research on this topic... Just FYI...

Comment by Alternative_Fox3674 at 15/02/2025 at 12:54 UTC

1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Societal tension finds a release. Disenchantment and resentment operatelike solvents in osmosis - worst-case scenario is violence.

Comment by Deathanddisco041 at 15/02/2025 at 15:51 UTC

1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

It’s almost as if making everyone’s basic human needs super unaccessible will lead to desperation and violence… who’d a thought

Comment by GancioTheRanter at 15/02/2025 at 16:52 UTC

1 upvotes, 0 direct replies

"Give me your money or I will cause a war that will kill lots of poor people and barely any rich people"