93 upvotes, 67 direct replies (showing 25)
Those timelines were promised before we had a real plan of action or any internal dialogue. There's no good way to say this, but they are not reasonable and have given you guys some false hope. We want to do these things but we don't want to ship out crappy products either. Mainly, modmail is going to take a lot of time. It will not be ready by the end of the year.
We also need to discuss tool priorities with you guys. For example, if brigading isn't what you think should be a top priority, maybe we don't construct those tools first? I think once these questions are answered, we can start coming up with some realistic timelines.
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 19:01 UTC
35 upvotes, 6 direct replies
AskReddit chiming in here: user notes is a top priority for us.
We need a way to leave comments on users which other askreddit mods can see. Without this we have no choice but to use temporary bans and this seems harsh to most of our users. We simply have no way of tracking who we give warnings to, or tracking people who have been banned before and need permanently banning.
Comment by agentlame at 06/07/2015 at 18:16 UTC
186 upvotes, 8 direct replies
There's lots of very low hanging fruit in toolbox that is both simple to add to reddit and really should be native to the platform. Just one example of something simple is built in analytics for spam fighting: http://i.imgur.com/jntiFzw.png[1] or mass/bulk actions on mod queue pages: http://i.imgur.com/BXlDB1d.png[2]
1: http://i.imgur.com/jntiFzw.png
2: http://i.imgur.com/BXlDB1d.png
It's not like you guys need to deliver super huge projects to make progress. I could name 10 things in toolbox that would each take less than a week to make native to reddit.
Comment by TotesMessenger at 06/07/2015 at 18:36 UTC*
37 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/bestof] /u/krispykrackers Explains the promised timeline may not happen on time
[/r/blackout2015] "HUZZAH! NEW TOOLS FOR MODS!" says Reddit administrator. In January 2016.
2: /message/compose/?to=/r/TotesMessenger
Comment by 316nuts at 06/07/2015 at 18:24 UTC
19 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Most of the community (myself included) have no idea how much time/effort these various "tools" require to develop. I sort of assume ya'll just wave a magic wand and stuff happens.
Would it be an option, down the road, to have a list of the "Top 5 projects" with some ideas of the timeline for reach? #1 is a 3 month project, #2 is a 10 month project, Modmail is a one year project but could be a 6 month project if *everything* else is put on hold, and projects #4 and #5 are both two month projects, but if we stopped everything else *they* might be done in one month.
Having timelines and "work hours" associated with each project may help identify low hanging fruit to clean up quick or massive projects that are important enough to be expedited at the expense of less important projects.
Perhaps if the community could see some timelines associated with each, they could 1) temper expectations 2) help coordinate and prioritize efforts in conjunction with the effort required.
Comment by FinalMantasyX at 06/07/2015 at 18:16 UTC
631 upvotes, 13 direct replies
Those timelines were promised before we had a real plan of action or any internal dialogue.
Comment by Thoguth at 06/07/2015 at 18:24 UTC
94 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Those timelines were promised before we had a real plan of action or any internal dialogue.
That was a bad move.
There's no good way to say this, but they are not reasonable and have given you guys some false hope.
You know, that's better to say now than later. However, if you've made a commitment to it, you work with that commitment, don't you? You can make a *lot* of tech progress in 6 months with a good team; I know many good teams who have made entire best-of-class products from the ground up in that much time.
We want to do these things but we don't want to ship out crappy products either. Mainly, modmail is going to take a lot of time. It will not be ready by the end of the year.
I'm curious here. Are you saying that for the past couple years when you were promising better tools you haven't had *anything* going on? Your language here sounds like basically all those other promises of working on future improvements were lies. Still... truth now is better than more lies.
Do we have a backlog with time estimates on features? Seems like a pretty easy way to start making priorities and realistic timelines, right?
Comment by redalastor at 06/07/2015 at 18:31 UTC
42 upvotes, 2 direct replies
For example, if brigading isn't what you think should be a top priority
Top priority is to make crystal clear *what brigading is exactly* because that was never made clear and people are getting shadowbanned over it.
Comment by mcagent at 06/07/2015 at 18:16 UTC
41 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I think what would be reasonable is you guys keeping us updated with exactly what you're doing in regards to building tools, and asking us for feedback along the way.
So maybe we'll see a post in a mod subreddit where the admins doing the building might ask, "here's the new modmail so far, check it out! do you guys like this and that? should we do that or this?" And then they'll respond to the feedback they get and update us as things happen.
Comment by gooeyfishus at 06/07/2015 at 18:19 UTC
35 upvotes, 1 direct replies
So... We're already falling down on timelines/goal discussion/communication.
I get that the last few days have been wacky, and I get that things have been said regarding tool rollout, promises etc in order to get subs back up/mods placated. But yall need to sit down and have a serious meeting about expectations/realities and the communications issues that are happening here. Because as much of a pr nightmare is happening, the bigger problem is the communication. One person is saying one thing, another is saying something else and the community is (rightly) taking those things as truth and they're going to hold you to them.
And that's bad. Because when you have to go back in a week and tell everyone in a site wide announcement that you were wrong (and to many it will be seen as "lie") and that those tools wont be ready by Q3/Q4 2015, it's going to be a mess. All over again.
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 18:18 UTC
51 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Then I think the real answer is to kep us updated on these things
Rather than:
Work-Work-work-work-work-release
Why not:
work-work-show you a screenshot/make a post-work-work-work-Show you more-work-beta-release
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that devs hate that sometimes, because if you have to scrap something, well, its never easy, but that will clearly help the situation
Comment by mostlylurkingmostly at 06/07/2015 at 18:19 UTC
21 upvotes, 1 direct replies
We also need to discuss tool priorities with you guys. For example, if brigading isn't what you think should be a top priority, maybe we don't construct those tools first? I think once these questions are answered, we can start coming up with some realistic timelines.
This sounds fun. If you asked five mods of five different kinds of subs what to prioritize, then you'd probably get five different answers.
I don't care as much about brigading as I do about modmail and ban evasion tools. I'm guessing larger subs with more problems in common will have more say?
Comment by Unicormfarts at 06/07/2015 at 18:50 UTC
25 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Reddit has been promising searchable modmail for over 4 years. What IS a reasonable timeline, given you are currently at 4+ years?
Comment by MannoSlimmins at 06/07/2015 at 18:35 UTC
15 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Simple solution: Give us updates every month or so about the progress of features.
Have /u/krispykrackers or whoever make a post saying "Hey, modmail ran into an issue we are working on now. It'll be delayed a bit longer, but this is how modmail is going to work".
Also, you have beta.reddit.com. Use it. Once you have something ready for testing, throw it onto the beta site and let mods know. It's the best way for us to provide feedback to you.
Comment by MercuryPDX at 06/07/2015 at 18:32 UTC
7 upvotes, 1 direct replies
We also need to discuss tool priorities with you guys.
Please involve /u/creesch and other folks involved with /r/toolbox to help figure those out.
Comment by kerovon at 06/07/2015 at 18:18 UTC
15 upvotes, 0 direct replies
What I would like to ask is for you to have at least monthly discussions between the mods and the engineers. Actually give info like: These features have been completed. These features partly work but are buggy. These features are next on the list.
As long as there is open, detailed communication that shows progress is being made and that the tools aren't vaporware, I suspect that most of the mods won't be too upset.
Comment by greatyellowshark at 06/07/2015 at 19:01 UTC
21 upvotes, 1 direct replies
As far as I'm concerned, you guys don't need to do anything other than keep the site going. Far be it for me to demand things from you when I've volunteered to be a moderator here. If modmail gets reworked, awesome, if other things that people are asking for get rolled out, that's great too. But there are enough tools on the site right now for me to be able to do my job. Some of the toolbox and RES features are pretty useful, but if they went away I wouldn't be lost without them. I'm usually moderating via mobile anyway so w/e.
Which isn't to say I haven't noticed some half-assed, amateurish and baffling decisions from some of the admins over the last year or two - which cause me to worry more about the future of the site than what I am or am not getting as a moderator. I get the feeling no one quite knows what trajectory they're on anymore, and that there's no consensus on what direction the site is heading.
I am, and always have been, here for the readers. There's no better reason, in my opinion, for putting in time here voluntarily. I certainly can't say what the outcome of the current crisis will be, or advise you to do one thing or another to steer yourselves out of it. But I wanted to let you know that at least one mod is realistic about what you can or should deliver versus what is being demanded of you.
Comment by sickpuppies187 at 07/07/2015 at 04:45 UTC
15 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Did you just say that you guys made up timelines and promised them without having figured out if you could actually do it? So, in other words, you thought, "what do they want to hear" and then just said it without any real inclination of delivering on your empty promises? Note that when I say "you" here, I mean Reddit since you are a representative of Reddit.
I think that's quite a remarkably stupid thing to do, let alone admit it openly. I must be missing something here?
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 18:17 UTC
55 upvotes, 2 direct replies
So you lied to cover your asses?
Comment by -Silverfoxx at 06/07/2015 at 18:26 UTC
19 upvotes, 0 direct replies
hahaha /u/Kn0thing not a few days ago promised mod tools by end of this quarter and they are already planting excuses what a fucking joke....
Comment by otakuman at 06/07/2015 at 19:22 UTC*
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Can I suggest to promise not to ban subs or users criticizing the upper levels? This whole "damage control" attitude freaked me out and only made me feel alienated.
Also, consulting with mods, and users if necessary, before deciding on things. I'm not against monetizing, but please do so in a way that does not disrupt the community.
Not inflating the admin's karma. If downvotes make the post invisible, make the admins replies unburiable, no matter their karma.
Comment by Meepster23 at 06/07/2015 at 20:55 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
For example, if brigading isn't what you think should be a top priority, maybe we don't construct those tools first?
Wait, back up, didn't /u/kn0thing and /u/ekjp state that those tools **were already being worked on**? Are you saying that work hasn't even started on them?
Comment by [deleted] at 06/07/2015 at 18:38 UTC*
10 upvotes, 3 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by sirbruce at 06/07/2015 at 20:57 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
LOL, this is great. The mods of AskReddit specifically put up a timeline 2 days ago with your promises and we told them that you wouldn't keep to them. Now you're already backpedalling! Let's see if the mods are willing to stick to their guns and blackout again.
Comment by boobookittyfuck69696 at 06/07/2015 at 22:47 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
There's no good way to say this, but they are not reasonable and have given you guys some false hope. We want to do these things but we don't want to ship out crappy products either.
Then say goodbye to the community, because we don't see how 3 months isn't long enough for something that's been in DevHell for 5 years. Give us something concrete in three months, or there'll most likely be hell to pay.
Comment by MockDeath at 06/07/2015 at 22:54 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Hey /u/krispykrackers I do appreciate the honesty. Despite the crap that is being said about all of this, the fact you guys are talking is already a step in the right direction.
A question I have for you is how lines of communication are going to work. I hope that it is not just default mods who have a say in this.
Perhaps a communication subreddit for subs with more than 50k subscribers and another one for all moderators? Skype chatting or calls with top moderators? It is going to be as big of a pain in the ass to set up the lines of communication as it is to roll out new things.
Also I have ideas having been a mod for way too long now, how would I even go about getting those to the admins?
