https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/omvdp8/do_you_think_that_sometimes_discrimination_based/
created by redwhiterosemoon on 18/07/2021 at 17:42 UTC
114 upvotes, 30 top-level comments (showing 25)
Comment by benemivikai4eezaet0 at 18/07/2021 at 20:14 UTC*
119 upvotes, 7 direct replies
Bulgarian here, living in Germany. While I've rarely encountered any xenophobia personally, other people from my country have shared with me that they're generally viewed with some measure of suspicion or contempt. Things like "your name ends in -ov/ova or -ski/ska, you don't get a call for a flat or a job after you apply". Definitely an attitude that would be judged as totally unacceptable if it were directed toward a black person of any ethnicity.
I've mostly moved in an academic environment (and also, in Berlin), so I've been lucky enough not to have had any issues like that. What I've faced is a softer form of discrimination that had mostly left me wondering if people take me as seriously as they would a German. Mostly it's been amusing to see how people's attitude changes when they hear where I'm from (then again with a Slavic name it's always kinda obvious from the start). Stuff like speaking slowly, as if I'm a child, or the obligatory "Aber du sprichst so gut Deutsch!" (Ja danke alter, bin seit 7 Jahren in Berlin und bevor ich nach hier zugezogen bin, hatte ich es für 10 Jahren in der Schule gelernt. So ein Wunder, dass meine 2 Balkannervenzellen die Fähigkeit haben, fließend Deutsch zu reden, oder?) Or there was the doctor who administered my covid vaccine, when he asked me where I was from and I told him, he was like "Ach Bul-gaaaa-ri-en..." and immediately became dismissive of any question I tried to ask, including the one about when and how to get my bloody digital certificate.
So yes, I believe a discriminatory attitude is present (though certainly not the norm, thankfully) and people get away with it because it's not directed at a group that's widely seen as marginalised.
Then again, a thicker skin is something we are taught to have and we get told "well, it do be like that" before we even go West. Jokes are fine, we make those ourselves, but when more serious matters are concerned, it's just not fun anymore.
Comment by R4Z0RJ4CK at 18/07/2021 at 18:53 UTC
51 upvotes, 4 direct replies
It's not nice nor acceptable however it is accepted. Most Germans here typically joke about the Polish amongst others and east Germans are certainly often looked at in the same manner. It is quite common actually and no one tends to object.
Comment by PolyPill at 19/07/2021 at 05:34 UTC
31 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I think the sad answer is yes. A lot of Germans discriminate based on country of origin while fewer will do it base solely on skin color but it’s still more prevalent than most Germans will admit. Rarely will anyone around them call them out for such practices so it continues.
I’m a white American and I get treated quite well, my wife’s family is Russian German and she always comments on how nice they are to me and how mean they tend to be to her parents. I have an African American friend and we are treated very differently. He needs to send 100 apartment inquiries to get 1 reply. For me it is more like 1 in 10. His white German girlfriend is more like 9 in 10. It’s not just apartment searching but everything from how polite a service worker will be to how hospital staff will behave towards you, including the doctors.
Comment by Watt_Is_Love_ at 19/07/2021 at 03:29 UTC
35 upvotes, 6 direct replies
As a Polish girl, most definitely. I’ve been mingling with a lot of middle class in Germany due to work (physics research ) and the amount of times I was forced to listen to diatribes against Eastern Europeans at friends&family gatherings I was invited to... Astonishing. People also regularly treat me like a zoo animal for being a Cambridge-educated Pole and automatically assume I come from humble circumstances even though my family is certainly more affluent than most Germans I come into contact with. I had my first German partner break up with me due to their parents’ disapproval of a relationship with Pole. Certainly have not heard similar things about POC as, I imagine, they’re both less demonised and less off-limits.
Anyway, after 3 years here, safe to say I will be moving out and social landscape is a big part of it.
Comment by [deleted] at 18/07/2021 at 17:54 UTC
42 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I mean my definition of racism would include discrimination based on nationality, does it not? I don't really get the question.
Comment by Habitat97 at 19/07/2021 at 06:53 UTC
9 upvotes, 1 direct replies
My old Boss kept asking me when I finally get a german citizenship because it would be a shame keeping my eastern one given my great german. And of course, the "hahah poles steal" jokes are an almost everyday occurrence. On the streets, I've heard "scheiss russe/polake" already too, but those instances are luckily few and far between.
Comment by dirkt at 19/07/2021 at 05:01 UTC*
9 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Actually mostly all prejudices (and discrimination) you'll encounter in Germany is based on where you are from (which is sometimes more specific than nationality, sometimes a lot more vague) and not on "race". How you look like is just an indicator of where you are from. And that even extends to Germans, if you are from some area in Germany (and yes, sometimes you can tell by looks), some prejudices will get attached to you initially.
And that can change the moment you open your mouth. If a black person or someone with Eastern-European looks opens his mouth and starts speaking in perfect Bavarian dialect, the prejudices will change from "he's Easter-European" to "he was born in Bavaria".
It's just the internet discussion culture influenced by Americans that likes to call this "racism".
And quite a few people think indeed nothing about it. Others (like me) think it's not acceptable at all.
Comment by Cyclist1972 at 18/07/2021 at 18:31 UTC
40 upvotes, 8 direct replies
It must be, because my friend (who is Romanian), was recently searching for an apartment here in Southwest Germany and had TWO different landlords tell her flat out they won’t rent to a Romanian. Try that shit where I’m from and there’s a good chance you’ll get punched or shot for saying something like that.
Comment by alertthepuppies at 19/07/2021 at 15:46 UTC*
7 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Came to study for master's. In a seminar they did a truth or dare kind of contest. I was supposed to say 3 things about me, one of which is false. The audience was supposed to guess which one is false. The tutor asked: does X *LOOK LIKE* a person that studies Computer Science? Everyone raised their hands up saying no, that I am lying. I am a woman, an Easter European one. We have a 50-50 distribution in our country in Computer Science. I found it both misogynistic and a bit xenophobic but somehow this was a normal conversation in a top engineering program.
Comment by MysteriousMysterium at 18/07/2021 at 19:05 UTC
23 upvotes, 2 direct replies
That's why I think the word racism shouldn't be used in cases where xenophobia would be the more fitting term.
Comment by t0pz at 18/07/2021 at 20:07 UTC
16 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Maybe not acceptable from a subjective POV but common, objectively speaking. Then again, if any of you lived any amount of time in an actual eastern european country, you would realize that xenophobia and racism are MUCH more rampant there... Already because they generally have less immigrants (or variety thereof) but mostly because nobody gives a f*ck and everyone goes along.
Comment by [deleted] at 19/07/2021 at 07:21 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
For starters: that's racism, too. And yes, it is mostly overlooked.
Comment by MrMudd88 at 19/07/2021 at 08:19 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Hate this type of behavior. I have yelled at my fellow Germans for making these kinds of jokes. I don’t know why we have abandoned the golden rule „Treat others as you would like to be treated“. I don’t want to go to Poland or the Czech Republik and be looked down upon as a snot nosed German.
All this being said this type of behavior is not uniquely German. Every nation does to this to certain extend…I wonder if we will ever get rid of it.
Comment by MrDaMi at 19/07/2021 at 10:46 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Discrimination against white Europeans from the post-communist countries is definitely much more accepted than racism.
Even East Germans are not (yet) at the same level as West Germans.
Comment by zeGermanGuy1 at 19/07/2021 at 05:32 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
What you describe is a kind of racism too. But yes, while it sadly happens to all racial minorities it’s not looked down upon as much with central/eastern Europeans as it is with people of African or Asian origins.
Btw I’ve heard black people say they get constantly stopped by the police. It’s a sad reality not only in the US it seems.
Comment by Librae94 at 19/07/2021 at 10:50 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
As a more southern-like looking German (dark eyes, dark hair) even I witness racistic/xenophobic comments from time to time. Ever since I let my beard grow, these comments increased in numbers and when ever I’m at any party/socializing event there are at least 2 people commenting about my beard, my bomber-appearance or whatever.
It’s just sad - but I learned to deal with it/keep ignoring them and if it comes from a relative I‘ll just make a comment about their appearance aswell. Yes I know, im a petty bitch
Comment by dfnly at 19/07/2021 at 10:53 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I have lived as a minority most of my life. I have a little understanding of what it is like, although I am not claiming to know or understand your pain. We are at 2 different places in life. I have had my career and loved it. A large part of it was spent interpreting for those that couldn't speak the native language. I never judged them for not having learned the language, most people have their reasons, but I could see how hard it made things for them. Now I am experiencing it myself. It is hard. And while I did not judge those people, I knew a lot of people who did. We cannot control how others feel or what they think. We can only control ourselves. So I am trying to learn the language and someday I hope to be able to see the surprise in people's eyes when I do.
May I ask if you are planning on staying in Germany long term? It is none of my business. I am just curious. As I said earlier I wish you well in your endeavors with a life full of happiness. Good luck.
Comment by Nez-90- at 19/07/2021 at 11:48 UTC*
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
As someone of turkish origin who was born and raised in berlin, I noticed that discrimination against eastern europeans is more acceptable somehow, especially against polish people. Mostly older folks who didn‘t grew up with people from different nationalities tend to be racist against anyone who isn‘t german. Younger folks are usually more relaxed and they have the required „intercultural competence“. However, I noticed that, in all age groups, seemingly innocuous jokes are mostly directed towards eastern europeans. An example would be: „oh, you need help cleaning?Just call the kurwa!“. I suspect this subliminal dislike stems from the fact that many eastern europeans work periodically unregistered in germany but go to poland or their country of origin to spend their money, which doesn‘t support the local economy. It doesn’t help that the governments of the countries of eastern europeans are anti-EU. They are trying to benefit from all the advantages of the EU like work or development money without being cooperative in other issues such as the refugee crisis. This is being fed by the mass media to the average citizen. Racists usually don‘t dare to attack established communities like the german-turks, they did so in the past, but people are cowards anyway, you are going to encounter people like this everywhere you go.
Comment by neowiz92 at 19/07/2021 at 12:44 UTC*
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I have a german lastname and an english name, they get very surprised when I show up and I look like a latino, it's really funny the face they make lol
Did not feel any discrimination towards me, but probably because i am still really new and can't tell if someone is being rude with me.
Comment by magimerg at 19/07/2021 at 05:55 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I have always thought that if you mind your own business and behave as locals you won't have any problems.
Eastern European, been living in Germany for a little over 3 years and haven't faced any discrimination. Same is valid for my wife.
Even when looking for an apartment, owners were mostly interested in what we do (what companies we work for and that we have stable contracts) and not really cared where we were born.
Comment by Ooops2278 at 18/07/2021 at 21:46 UTC
8 upvotes, 1 direct replies
"Racism" in a way many english speakers (thanks to the U.S. in particular) use the word , just doesn't exist in Germany. Basically no one here believes in human "races"...
Ethnicity on the other hand is by definition based on cultural origin.
So discrimination of foreign cultures/nationalities is not regarded "more socially acceptable" than racism. It is in fact the prevalent (or even sole) form of racism you can find in germany.
(And given that the german language still uses the word "racism" but mostly without a real connection to "race" this can lead to...interesting... conversations when your pitch-black german neighbor (living here in 3rd generation) rants about immigrants *sigh*)
Comment by pee_boy at 19/07/2021 at 06:24 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Discrimination based on nationality is racism but with few extra steps.
Comment by [deleted] at 19/07/2021 at 06:53 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Yes
Comment by volley12345 at 19/07/2021 at 02:55 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
No. Discrimination of any kind is wrong. But i think that Xenophobia currently is more socially accepted in Germany than racism is.
But then, it is also perfectly explainable: show me one person that does not have any prejudices against people from country X after having had bad experiences several times with other people from country X. Same goes for racism btw..
A friend (f) i know got raped by 3 immigrants from a certain E.E. country. A coworkers family got robbed by people from that country. I even worked with an academic one of that country - he got fired because he was cheating on his hours and rarely working (~50% of the time he called in sick and it took him a month to do a single task of 1 day). And i'm not even done with that stories.
How am i supposed to NOT have prejudices against immigrants from that country after all that? I am surely not going to give my positive vote if asked to hire one, nor am i going to put my kid into the hands of anyone of that country.
It's only the ones that are fully integrated where it's easier to dismiss the instant prejudices.
My theory still stands: In every larger group of humans, there are always some idiots that ruin everything and the rest of the group has to take the consequences.
Let the group be e.g. ppl of a nationality, a certain race, a certain ethnicity, a certain religion, a certain gender, sexual preference, haircolor, motorbikers, truck drivers, cyclists, sports car drivers, politicians, police... whatever group really.
Comment by [deleted] at 19/07/2021 at 07:23 UTC
4 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]