On Zoe Quinn, Censorship, Doxxing, and General Discourse

created by [deleted] on 19/08/2014 at 16:07 UTC*

0 upvotes, 229 top-level comments (showing 25)

[deleted]

Comments

Comment by danpascooch at 19/08/2014 at 16:11 UTC

952 upvotes, 3 direct replies

30 seconds ago I saw two posts that politely asked the mods why they are doing this and what it means for the state of the subreddit get deleted.

Those posts were not in violation of any of the reddit wide or even subreddit specific rules. If you guys want subscribers to believe you it hurts your case when you start removing enyire non-violating threads.

Comment by lenapedog at 19/08/2014 at 18:26 UTC

1315 upvotes, 6 direct replies

You guys going to outlaw Talos worship also?

Comment by Youthsonic at 19/08/2014 at 18:03 UTC

645 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Deletes 20k comments on a single thread.

Stomps shit out on other subreddits.

Doesn't respond to anything for the longest time.

"BUT GUYS LET'S BE CALM AND REASONABLE"

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 20:16 UTC

711 upvotes, 4 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by TwirlyMustachio at 19/08/2014 at 17:12 UTC*

2289 upvotes, 3 direct replies

Mmm . . . the mass deletion of the TotalBiscuit post made me pay way more attention to this than I normally would have at all, so the Streisand effect is going strong. This will undoubtedly get lost, but I just want to say that despite the fact that witch hunting *is* wrong, I can definitely understand the anger people feel over this. Situations like these tend to unravel themselves anyway, so I feel as if the truth regarding this will come to light eventually. Outrage over this is important though, as it is a reflection of a community's unwillingness to go along with these sorts of things. Deception at this magnitude hurts us all, and using horribly butchered feminism as a catalyst for deception only serves to increase the divide caused by gender inequality.

The problem in *this* particular situation is that it does, admittedly, feel like witch hunting targeted at a witch. IF the information regarding this debacle is true, then she and the offending parties involved have ruined themselves for, quite frankly, exposure and / or sex that isn't worth it. To want to control the rage that is bound to follow makes sense, but deleting the contents of a thread might not have been the best way to go about it. I understand that the number of posts in it were increasing rapidly, and it is a LOT of mess to comb through, but you have to weigh the cost of cutting down hate *now* versus cutting down hate *later*. By stopping the immediate "threat," the fire was fueled for anyone who would've been wary of conspiracies, cover-ups, etc. And it served to bring people like myself in, who would've gone on with his/her day never knowing about Zoe Quinn.

You also did yourself no favors by contacting her on Twitter, then claiming to have no stake in Ms. Quinn. True as it may be, it reflects poorly on you, and brings your correspondence with her to greater attention. It would have been best to leave that out entirely. Time and time again, users of this site have seen drama unfold, and it seems as if people responsible for keeping the peace are quite poor at damage control.

I hope that this storm blows over soon, and IF what they say she has done is true, I hope she and everyone associated with her in this mess is asked to step down from their position(s). These issues aren't exclusive to the gaming community, but we have already dealt with enough confusion and suspicion over our perceived lack of social etiquette; it isn't insane to believe that people who don't identify with the gaming community would see this and assume the worst. Events like these make me feel less and less like identifying as a gamer, as I do not want horrible instances like these being associated with me.

Morbid curiosity will probably have me watch this to the end, but after this, I believe I will be unsubbing from here. I have never been the greatest fan of the posts I see from here, but I understand that large, general subreddits are bound to be diluted in some way. But I would hope that a default subreddit open for 6 years would by now know how to handle drama like this properly. What has transpired does not seem to be the case. I wish you all the best of luck with this.

Comment by Hydromancy at 19/08/2014 at 16:10 UTC

2732 upvotes, 4 direct replies

You're deleting everything, even comments that follow all the rules...

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 16:20 UTC*

437 upvotes, 4 direct replies

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Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 16:11 UTC*

1158 upvotes, 2 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 17:05 UTC

1669 upvotes, 3 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 16:09 UTC*

2446 upvotes, 6 direct replies

If discussion of the subject is allowed, as you say, why are you still deleting all new submissions about it?

The rules do not protect anyone from criticism, bad press, or the likes.

If you feel Ms. Quinn's actions (alleged or fact) are deplorable, say so. If you feel her game is awful, expound on that. If you want to boycott her entire professional standing, that is your right within the terms of service.

You say this is fine but your actions are saying otherwise.

If you want people to trust what you're saying, you should disclose the nature of your conversation with the game developer in question.

EDIT: Don't give me gold! Spend that money on something useful.

Comment by Fieldexpedient2 at 19/08/2014 at 16:20 UTC

629 upvotes, 2 direct replies

For those just joining a summary coppied from another subreddit:

Summary:

Woman (Quinn) makes a flash based game (more of one of those text based choose your own adventure things) about battling depression

The game receives critical acclaim from gaming journalist websites, and makes its way onto Steam

Quinn's ex boyfriend releases chat logs about her cheating on him with various men

Some of these men are key players in gaming journalism, and are responsible for the positive press Quinn's game received

Mods of gaming forums including /r/gaming, /r/Games and 4chan's /v/ are removing all traces of this drama. At least one mod from /r/gaming talked to Quinn on Twitter beforehand.

Bonus drama: All of her contact information is doxxed, she accuses 4chan. 4chan denies it claiming all the threads are being deleted so there was no way to organize it. Some people are accusing Quinn of doing it to herself to play the victim. She's faked similar harassments in the past using her "contacts". Apparently the doxxed information was fake anyway.

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 16:10 UTC

1609 upvotes, 2 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by AOL_ at 19/08/2014 at 16:10 UTC*

3952 upvotes, 6 direct replies

Funny because when I was doxxed, the mods never gave me any sort of special attention, or did anything about it.

If you feel Ms. Quinn's actions (alleged or fact) are deplorable, say so.

How can we say so if everything is deleted?

EDIT: For those who are interested in a little back story.. I was SWATTED twice by a guy who used reddit and 4chan to post my dox with BS information, and tried to get people to do his dirty work. Luckily the police sided with me, and know about the whole incident for the future. He would follow me around reddit posting my dox, and made a weekly thread on 4chan to get people to prank call me. I had to change my number, delete my reddit account and change my Skype. Whenever I tried to send a message to admins, it just got ignored. Thankfully now he's gone, and has no idea who the fuck I am online.

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 16:08 UTC

2032 upvotes, 5 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by vicentil at 19/08/2014 at 16:49 UTC

196 upvotes, 1 direct replies

I think it's unfortunate that last night on /r/gaming we were having civil discussion about this event. But because of the pruning... all of those threads died quickly or were deleted. Most of the discussion occurring yesterday was about "while cheating is shitty, it's not our business, however the implications of WHO you sleep with and the state of video game journalism should be talked about".

Now, because of it hitting the front page, it's become more of an issue of censorship than trying to discuss the journalistic integrity of the video game industry. I'd say a majority of people don't give an actual damn about Zoe Quinn, but mainly have an issue with a lack of transparency in "video game journalism" and are wondering if this situation has occurred once...how many other times has it occurred?

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 16:14 UTC

505 upvotes, 2 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by m1ndwipe at 19/08/2014 at 16:23 UTC

390 upvotes, 2 direct replies

These three points seem to be quite questionable interpretations of Reddit's actual rules. Some elaboration on where these supposedly come from would be appreciated.

This meant that bullet point 3, "lock down the source" became a requirement. From that point on, any comment in that initial thread would be deleted by Reddit.

Hold on, you're not "locking the thread", automoderator is being used to delete threads and then to delete any and all comments. You say it will be deleted by Reddit - but the Reddit admins aren't in charge of the automoderator implemention and rules, the moderators of /r/gaming are.

That said, in the Total Biscuit thread currently on our front page, we are doing our best to ensure both human moderators and automoderator allow through non-threatening, non-witch hunting, non-doxxing information.

This wouldn't be possible if there was some kind of mythical system in place that did it without the involvement of moderators or automods under the moderator's direct control. To be blunt, if it had happened at the start this shitstorm probably wouldn't have happened in the first place, but all comments were deleted indiscriminately, and then you Streisanded everything to hell.

Now we've ended up in a situation where it's classic Reddit moderation failure, and your user base is pissed off, and it's been taken advantage of by some pretty horrid trolls (worryingly for Reddit in general it seems like 4Chan just found out they can overwhelm automoderator if they try hard enough. I'm sure that won't backfire at all over the next few months...).

I do agree that some actions going around are completely deplorable. But it's like some of you have never used Reddit before - the moderation path today has unquestionably made that situation worse, and not better. And that's really shitty.

Comment by Joemang4 at 19/08/2014 at 16:10 UTC*

1638 upvotes, 2 direct replies

You delete an entire thread and expect anyone to believe your bull. Are you serious? you could have just deleted certain comments but you deleted everything. Your're total liars. Please Mod your tumblr blogs like fiends not the entire subreddit for your Zoe Love.

Comment by [deleted] at 19/08/2014 at 16:10 UTC*

1029 upvotes, 2 direct replies

Will you be deleting all the comments in this thread too?

EDIT: Thanks for the gold! First timer here!

Comment by serothel at 20/08/2014 at 07:46 UTC

72 upvotes, 1 direct replies

If you feel Ms. Quinn's actions (alleged or fact) are deplorable, say so.

I feel Ms. Quinn's actions (alleged or fact) are deplorable.

Abuse of DMCA claims to suppress negative feedback regarding Zoe Quinn, Depression Quest, and the controversy is irresponsible at best and a violation of First Amendment rights at worst, regardless of whether or not these claims are being made by Quinn, on her behalf, or by a third party.

Perhaps what's worse is the suppression of free speech taking place on this very sub. I absolutely understand that Reddit has an ethical and legal duty to prevent harm coming to anyone as a result of its users and their actions. However, mass censorship is *not* the answer. I cannot pretend I know the content of every post that caused a comment to be deleted or user to be banned. However, I find it hard to believe that every person who is being banned from Reddit, NeoGAF, and any other hubs of discussion due to threats or other actions that compromise the safety or welfare of any party involved in this controversy. I joined Reddit because I believed it to be a nexus of free thought. At present, Reddit is less of a place for free thought than 4chan.

This comment is as much a test as a statement. I'm interested to see if it goes through and is visible, and will be pleasantly surprised if it does. If it is deleted and/or I am banned, shadow or otherwise, then I guess it is time to end my time on Reddit. I sincerely hope that in the coming days cooler heads can prevail and we can discuss this issue fully in-depth and without censorship.