https://www.reddit.com/r/freewill/comments/1fguost/perspective/
created by diogenesthehopeful on 14/09/2024 at 20:04 UTC
5 upvotes, 11 top-level comments (showing 11)
I think all of the posters on this sub show evidence of perspective and yet a rock never shows any such evidence. We have clearly more ability than a rock but the reductionist would seem to want to reduce humans to things that can only react to the outside world. A thermometer does that. Even a thermostat does more than a thermometer does with its one feedback loop. However, I hesitate to assert that the thermostat has perspective (unless maybe it is a "smart" thermostat).
I think humans can have a different perspective on whether we have free will so what causes our perspective? Why does it have to be "supernatural" if we have it? Why can't AI have perspective? Why can't AI ever understand what it is doing?
Comment by [deleted] at 14/09/2024 at 20:32 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
What do you mean by “perspective”?
Comment by Otherwise_Spare_8598 at 14/09/2024 at 23:11 UTC*
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Each unique perspective is a fraction of the amalgamated whole.
All things work as one through indivituated facets.
All characters play their unique role in doing so.
Your inherent role is something no one had any say in or any control over on an eternal and ultimate scale.
In such, all things that ever will happen have already happened.
The first moment of the universe declared and determined the end.
Each one gets what they get for the reason of because.
Comment by platanthera_ciliaris at 15/09/2024 at 01:51 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Perspective is a matter of perception. Both living beings and machines can have senses that process aspects of the world around them and send those sensory inputs to the brain (whether biochemical or mechanical). The brain further processes those inputs into a perception (an internal representation of the world), from which actions can result. No genuine free will is necessary in order for this system to function in the world.
Comment by platanthera_ciliaris at 15/09/2024 at 01:33 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
People don't only react to the world, they are also agents who engage in actions that can change the world. Ants and other living beings are the same way. From a deterministic view, how we react and act in the world is ultimately predetermined.
Comment by platanthera_ciliaris at 15/09/2024 at 01:59 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I reject the assumption that AI can't have perspective (it most certain can via its senses, if they exist, like in a robot, or if a sense organ, like a camera, is connected to a computer). And I also reject the assumption that AI can't understand what it is doing (it can know what it is doing and why it is doing it). AI can have cognitive structures, memory, learning ability, and goals. AI has already defeated the best chess players in the world, and if it exists as a robot, it can not only have cognitive structures, memory, learning ability, and goals, but it can also act behaviorally to obtain those goals.
Comment by [deleted] at 14/09/2024 at 20:40 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
This is it for me. Consciousness/awareness/free will/perspective are interesting concepts, because we are all experiencing it. We don't need to look for answers in the fundamental rules of the universe, and we don't need to invent an entirely new realms to examine it, and these things hold it back.
What consciousness is and what it means has to be resolved where it happens.
Comment by nonarkitten at 14/09/2024 at 21:18 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I don't believe AI can have freewill because freewill is not-computable. Having the awareness of self is possible though and that's what they added in ChatGPT o1.
Comment by mildmys at 15/09/2024 at 00:00 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Join my cult Diogenes.
It's time to leave physicalism behind and consider other metaphysics. It will help you with these types of questions.
Comment by User-Name-8675309 at 15/09/2024 at 00:05 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Sentience requires a physical body, without physical perceptions emotions aren’t possible. Without sentience you can’t understand what you’re doing.
Comment by MarinkoAzure at 14/09/2024 at 20:40 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Why can't AI have perspective? Why can't AI ever understand what it is doing?
I think it's prudent to make this claim. What we have is not independent, autonomous artificial intelligence. It's evolution is limited by what we permit it to change.
What we have is only virtual intelligence.
Comment by spgrk at 15/09/2024 at 00:51 UTC*
0 upvotes, 1 direct replies
It is difficult to define the word “understand”. AI’s can use language but some argue they don’t really “understand” language. In a human, you can test whether someone understands a language by talking to them. Before computers, that would have been a sufficient test, but now it isn’t, because LLM’s seem to understand just by learning, essentially, what words go together with other words. So what is the test of “true” understanding?