created by [deleted] on 13/12/2018 at 02:18 UTC
22472 upvotes, 34 top-level comments (showing 25)
I hear the term 'gaslighting' used often but I can't get my head around it.
Comment by youdbinjail at 13/12/2018 at 06:08 UTC
1419 upvotes, 3 direct replies
I think it’s important to distinguish between regular lying and gaslighting. A lie is just a falsehood and it can be told for many reasons.
Gaslighting are lies told with the specific intent to make the other person question their sanity/reality.
It is a form of manipulation to make the other person doubt themselves so much that they no longer trust their perception of events. If you no longer trust yourself, then you begin to think you are the problem and the other person is then off the hook.
Comment by 2_short_Plancks at 13/12/2018 at 05:40 UTC
3392 upvotes, 7 direct replies
Note that gaslighting doesn’t only apply to minor things, as in the movie.
For example, for years my parents told me that surgery I could remember having as a child never happened, that I imagined it/was just being dramatic, maybe I dreamed it, etc. It was only once I became an adult and was able to get my own medical records that I found out it had actually happened (I believed by that stage that it hadn’t been real).
When I confronted my parents, they changed to telling me that they had never said that; and I was remembering wrong about them saying I HADN’T had the surgery.
There were lots of other things of course, people who gaslight will tell you lots of things are not real (almost always things you can’t prove but are relying on memory). For a long time I thought I had a terrible memory for events and a “vivid imagination”.
Probably unsurprisingly, I don’t have much contact with them now.
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 07:13 UTC
13543 upvotes, 13 direct replies
A good example of gaslighting is when your husband comes home late from work for the 10th time in a row. You ask him why he keeps coming home late. "What?" He says, in shock. "I haven't been coming home late! Are you sure you aren't just losing track of time?" And you doubt yourself. The next day it happens again, but you checked the time. "You're late!" And he said "what? No I'm not. I always come home at this time." And you try to argue that it's only been the last ten or even times he shows up at this time, he insists that you must have been confused, maybe in the past he got off work early once but he definitely always just comes home at this time
You wonder if you're really that unobservant. Honestly that is so like you to be kinda airheaded. You're not too smart, or you'd know for sure what time he gets home, like the fact that you doubt it is not a good sign, he seems pretty sure that he always got home at this time. You shrug. You move on. He goes on screwing the secretary. Some day you find a pair of underwear in your laundry and it's not yours. You ask him about it. He says he got you those two years ago for your anniversary, what the fuck, why don't you remember? You apologize because you feel bad for being inconsiderate, forgetting something that mattered to him. You wear the women's underwear to dinner as a make-up surprise.
It's beyond simple lying, it's lying that makes you doubt your reality and makes you docile, easy to control because you no longer trust which way is up, you have to depend on them to tell you which way is up.
Comment by Skatingraccoon at 13/12/2018 at 02:24 UTC
15327 upvotes, 6 direct replies
It's when one person/group/organization repeatedly lies, confuses, deceives, and otherwise psychologically manipulates another person/group/organization so that the manipulated person starts to doubt what is true or not.
The term comes from a play from the mid 20th century when a husband is dimming the gas lights and then lying about it, which makes his wife think she is just imagining the change.
So basically it's when someone is intentionally trying to confuse another person to the point where the other person doesn't know what's real.
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 03:48 UTC
23947 upvotes, 2 direct replies
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Comment by LinkRue at 13/12/2018 at 06:10 UTC
57 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Simple example... everytime you remember something you essentially rewrite the memory, and someone takes advantage of that.
So you (assumed with malicious intent) are manipulated into believing things that are untrue.
Say... to force you to trusting and relying on a significant other. They hide your keys everytime you come home, and then they tell you you always leave them in odd places. If you believe them you have essentially given them agency over your memories.
Then the real insidious stuff can happen.
Your SO leaves and starts to come home late with no warning (perhaps to murder puppies or cheat on you, whatever seems more horrible). When you question them, they get upset. They told you they'd be out late, why would you get so angry so quickly?
Makes you eventually question every decision you make and only your dear dear SO can tell you if you remember what is real and fake.
Of course for them whatever they want to be real is real
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 06:42 UTC
272 upvotes, 1 direct replies
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Comment by SpaceWhale07 at 13/12/2018 at 07:43 UTC
73 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Gaslighting refers to a form of psychological brain washing where one individual will slowly lie and manipulate to another person until the second person begins to question their own sanity and credibility. It’s extremely an damaging form of emotional abuse because it can cause someone to be completely stripped of any kind of positive self worth. I myself was trapped in an abusive relationship for 5 years with someone who liked to do this. He made me depend on him for everything and he had me so convinced that I couldn’t do anything on my own because I was stupid and incapable of taking care of myself. The way he talked down to me and belittled me was infuriating but every time I got upset about it he’d just say I was being too emotional, that I was crazy, that it was my fault for not being smart enough to realize he’s just trying to help me. It seems awful and blatantly toxic but this slowly started over the course of many years and the fostered dependence and the subtlety of his wording made it really really hard for me to finally figure out that he was controlling me and making me think less of myself. Slowly eroding away any independence I had left. We finally broke up, though, I’ve recovered, met someone who is sweet and nurturing, and I’m going to be marrying the love of my life soon c:
Comment by Loki-L at 13/12/2018 at 06:00 UTC*
364 upvotes, 4 direct replies
It used to be fairly obscure and rather specific term that has recently gotten a lot more popular due to its use in a political context and with popularity its meaning has become a bit boarder.
It is named after a play called "Gaslight" (which was also made into a movie) where a husband convinces his wife that she is losing her mind by doing such things as dimming a gas light and pretending nothing has changed, making her doubt her own senses and recollections.
The term has been used more broadly to describe any such tactics where through subterfuge and sheer strength of conviction a person convinces a victim that what they think was real isn't and make them doubt themselves.
It works because human senses and recollection really aren't all that reliable so when your peer group appears honestly convinced about something that is at odds with what you remember it is a good move to change your mind.
This can be abused in cases of victims with limited peer groups (like a spouse who isolates them) and whose abuser is adept at lying convincingly, being aware of your own failing mental faculties due to age or illness makes things worse.
This tactic has been used as a plot device in many books tv-shows and movies and has entered popular culture even if not everyone knew it by that name.
It happens in real life too albeit usually without the aim to drive someone insane on purpose. It is usually a side effect of abusive behaviour not the goal.
It gets exemplified by the cliché joke that ends with the husband who gets caught in bed with another woman by his wife and who still proclaims that he didn't cheat despite the evidence to the contrary by calling out: *"Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"*
While that joke is a humorous exaggeration it shows the general tactic of making the victim doubt their own memory and senses by being very insistent and convincing.
More recently some people in the US have drawn some parallels between the behaviour associated with "gaslighting" and that of some politicians who lie even though the people who are lied to should know the truth.
This parallel is quite a bit of stretch, but it has caught on. the main politician in question who this is associated with does not seem to set out to drive anyone insane by making them doubt their own senses. He is far from the criminal mastermind that this trope used to be associated with. Also the victims (in this case the general public) for the most part don't fall into the trap of believing him over their own senses and recollections.
Arguably the behaviour has more in common with a charismatic cult leader who convinces their follower to believe things that they should know better while everyone outside is left shaking their head.
However the term has caught on and is now used more often with the new less specific meaning than with the original more specific one and basically has been reduced to politicians telling lies they expect the public to believe even though the public should know better.
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 06:07 UTC
87 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Russian intelligence used to break into US staff homes, move stuff around, & then leave.
The key goal is to get someone to doubt themselves
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 05:27 UTC
50 upvotes, 3 direct replies
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Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 05:45 UTC
91 upvotes, 2 direct replies
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Comment by siamack1965 at 13/12/2018 at 07:07 UTC
24 upvotes, 2 direct replies
As an ethnographer I have observed husbands/wives/kids gaslight spouses/elderly parents suffering from alzheimers.
"But you agreed to buy xxx!"
"Did I?"
"Of course!"
And so on and so forth.
Comment by hyperspacekittyx at 13/12/2018 at 14:05 UTC
23 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Gaslighting doesnt exist. Why would you make up such a silly term to try to blame others when its YOUR fault youre so paranoid? Give me one example of what gaslighting even is. See? You dont even know what it is. Obviously youre deluded and need some help. Have you ever tried not making everything about you?
Comment by TheSleepingGiant at 13/12/2018 at 07:18 UTC
11 upvotes, 0 direct replies
When I was around seven my dads flight was snowed in and my medium crazy mom became absolutely insane. My three siblings and I were loud and obnoxious on Christmas Eve and my mother eventually made us leave all the presents at the foot of the stairs and go up to bed. Somehow I came up with the idea to tell my insane mother that it didn't happen. Around midnight my siblings and I went downstairs and grabbed presents and left them in our rooms and around the tree. In the morning we told my mother "It didn't happen." Denied any knowledge of the toys being taken away and basically made her think she was nuts.
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 02:26 UTC
45 upvotes, 2 direct replies
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Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 14:32 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
During my childhood, my mom would regularly accuse me of saying things I had no memory of saying. I was concerned. I kept telling her I had no memory of saying these things, and that she needed to put me in a mental hospital because I must be blacking out to say all of these things. I definitely doubted my own sanity. I'm 27 now and I still don't trust my own mind.
I thought I was the only one for the longest time. A few years ago, I read a random article that used the term "gaslighting". I was so excited to learn that my feelings had a name.
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 02:31 UTC
105 upvotes, 1 direct replies
It comes from the movie Gaslight[1]. Basically, it's a form of manipulation. In the movie, the woman's husband is trying to drive her crazy, so he would do stuff like take pictures off the wall and then tell his wife it was her who took the pictures down, and he would turn on lights in the attic and then he would say they weren't on, that it was a figment of her imagination.
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)
So when people use the term now, they are talking about people manipulating them and lying to them. Like, let's say a guy date rapes a girl... and she confronts him about it, he might tell her that she's all wrong, that she was the aggressor... maybe *he* would even say that he felt threatened by *her*. That would be an example of gaslighting. Or let's say a girl is cheating on her boyfriend and he confronts her about it, she might claim that no, he's cheating on her, and then she'll list a number of things she's claims is proof. And then she might tell all her friends that her boyfriend is crazy and abusive.
Comment by sensualcephalopod at 13/12/2018 at 12:13 UTC
8 upvotes, 0 direct replies
This is super late and no one’s going to see this, but I have a real life example:
When my mom discovered I was no longer a virgin, she ignored me for 3 months before calling a meeting with me and my boyfriend at the time. She proceeded to tell me she just couldn’t bear to look at me anymore. I was 17 and just devastated.
Years later the relationship with my mom is in shambles and when she asked me why, I pointed to that memory as an example. She denied that this ever happened, told me I have false memories, and that I should seek psychiatric help to determine why I don’t remember things accurately.
She has tried accusing me of false memories before, to the point that I did question if I was crazy or if there was something wrong with me. But I remember that day when I was 17 so strongly that after she denied it I knew for certain she was gaslighting me.
I saw a psychiatrist for the first time a few weeks ago and he confirmed it, and diagnosed me with Complex PTSD from years of emotional abuse.
Comment by [deleted] at 13/12/2018 at 06:10 UTC
35 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Also a heads up.... the term like all things internet is being over used and misapplied.
It's not just simple lying.... some times people confuse it for that....
Sometimes people want to actually deescalate and calm people down... And in doing so... They point out what they actually meant by what they said or did.
this is legitimately someone trying to explain themselves... Not gaslighting.
Also sometimes people actually DO overreact or get emotional over some thing trivial... and will accuse you of gaslighting them if you point this out...
A "reverse gaslighting" if you will...
(I can't possibly be wrong so you must be gaslighting me)... Type situation...
Comment by Creabhain at 13/12/2018 at 10:49 UTC
8 upvotes, 0 direct replies
My sister gaslighted one of our younger brothers. When we were kids she told him at age eight that Santa was not real and that our parents were the ones who bought the presents. Over the years as we got older and became adults she started slipping it into conversations that it was me and not her that spoiled his innocence about Santa. At first my brother laughed at her and said he remembered it was her but she would insist that he was remembering it wrong and the few times I heard about it I confronted her and asked what she thought she was doing. Fast forward ten years or so and my brother mentions at a family party , as if it were a vivid memory of his, that I was the one who said it to him.
I reminded him of the times in the early days that he corrected her and the conversations we had about her changing the story but he seemed confused then got defensive and insisted no, it was you, I remember. Luckily our Mother was present and I asked her to weigh in. She remembered it very well. She even remembered the early attempts of my sister trying to change the story and my brother still remembering the truth.
​
My sister got angry and claimed she had simply made a mistake and remembered it wrong. She thought we were making "too big a deal out of it".
​
I don't trust her very much any more.
Comment by HoS_Danielle at 13/12/2018 at 14:45 UTC
6 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Thanks for this! I was also confused by the term, but kind of embarrassed to ask?
Comment by Patoninetails at 13/12/2018 at 14:30 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
A method that narcissists use to manipulate and confuse the people around them. It is a way of attempting to warp reality to either deliberately make someone feel crazy or to change a story to fit a narrative.
Examples:
Adult child of a narcissist is told to go to the store and get a certain product, let say a steak. The narc gives detailed instructions about the kind of steak they want, how thick, etc. The adult child gets the steak and brings it back and the narc says, “That isn’t the steak I wanted, I wanted blah blah blah...” and then they sigh and complain that you never listen and don’t care and all they wanted was the blah blah blah and you can’t even do that right.
An example of the second type of gaslighting is narrative gaslighting. “You had such a beautiful childhood! We loved and cared for you so much! What a lucky girl you are!”
Actual words spoken by a neglectful drunk and a child beater.
Comment by _plinus_ at 13/12/2018 at 06:13 UTC
19 upvotes, 0 direct replies
It seems like you’ve gotten a lot of good responses, but gas lighting is when someone convinces another person (let’s call them person b) that they are imagining or misremembering something or that an unacceptable behavior/experience is completely normal. It’s different from normal lying because gaslighting is typically about convincing someone that they misinterpreted their own experiences and cannot trust their own memory. I’ll provide a light hearted example from the show the office.
In the office, there is an episode where Dwight finds a joint. When Dwight goes to interview Jim, Jim manipulates Dwight by telling him that marijuana erased his mind and that Dwight asked Jim to interview him. Jim is gaslighting Dwight. In addition, when Jim pulls his “Asian Jim” prank on Dwight, he is gaslighting Dwight into believing that Asian Jim is the real Jim.
Typically it’s a little darker and can be less intentional. For example, if a wife is being beaten by her husband and goes to a friend and the friend doesn’t believe the wife and states that “that doesn’t seem like <husband>”, that is technically gaslighting. It could also be simply telling someone that an unacceptable behavior is “normal”, or that they are imagining things.
Comment by Berrie34 at 13/12/2018 at 15:06 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I think people need to understand the difference between gaslighting and different perceptions. It's not gaslighting when 2 people perceive an event differently. ex: If 2 people see a movie and one person says it's a lighthearted comedy and the other says the film is dark satire, neither person is gaslighting the other.
Also not gaslighting if the person who is doing the act believes what they are saying. ex.: a color blind person hands you a red apple and tells you it's green. If someone believes what they're saying, they aren't gaslighting you, they are just wrong.
Gaslighting implies the intent to deceive. If you're always thinking people are gaslighting you, it might be that you are attributing motives to other people that aren't really there. It is common that people have conflicting beliefs and viewpoints, but I think willful deception is much less common. (In most cases, lying a-holes aren't the norm.)