https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/comments/1j7tr7j/what_next/
created by anonymous_mouse101 on 10/03/2025 at 08:11 UTC
160 upvotes, 59 top-level comments (showing 25)
I shall preface this by stating that I am Ange in. I've been a fan of Spurs, and regularly attended matches, for 16 years now (since the age of 8). I have never seen us win a trophy, in fact my first season as a supporter happened to coincide with our first time qualifying for the champions league.
I am generally pretty optimistic about the club (and certainly having to listen to most of the fans around me in the stadium, it feels like I'm one of the most optimistic). What I simply cannot understand is the negativity and pessimism of what feels like most of the match-going fans. Everyone in my section seems to be far more keen to focus on the negatives and shout abuse at the players instead of praising the good moments. I had a fan in front of me yesterday who was screaming at Ange to go when Son was handed the penalty instead of Solanke, absolutely bonkers.
What I don't get about the Ange out-ers is, given our track record of new managers, what makes them think anything will change? We are mid-rebuild, the kind of rebuild we've been talking about for about 7 years now, what good comes of breaking that up now? All that happens is we find another new manager with a decent CV, give him a year and a half and, if we don't see immediate success, pull the plug AGAIN. I completely accept that a lot of what Ange has done at the club hasn't worked, but it seems so clear to me that the squad is still not in a good enough position.
We are entirely dependent on Romero and Van de Ven at the back, both of which spend large spells of the season injured. We have one first team left back. We do not have a quality 6, nor do we have a clear starting midfield. Son is getting old and underperforming. Not to mention how knackered the squad is after having to cover for the number of players we've had out injured. It seems clear to me that the failings on the pitch lie with the players, not the manager.
So what comes next if we sack Ange? I see people talking about Iraola and Silva etc, and while I agree they are tremendous managers, I genuinely question why they would want to come here? At their respective clubs they are on an upwards trajectory, there are very little expectations from the fans, and they are achieving great things. What would possess them to see the current state of our club and the fan base, and think that would be more attractive than their current club.
We are in the middle of a rebuild and, to me, disrupting that just pushes our progression further back. We need to stop thinking about the short term goals, and keep building the project that will aim to have us challenging for Europe for years to come. We have so many brilliant young players coming through, the only problem seems to be with the quality of the wider squad, and that is on Levy.
Comment by mhs_93 at 10/03/2025 at 08:19 UTC*
203 upvotes, 5 direct replies
A lot of good points well made and I also desperately want Ange to work out but I'm running out of ways to defend him. We've looked completely clueless for months now. What happened to the high octane, all out attack, free flowing football we were promised? We can't even make simple passes any more.
It's undeniable that the problems at the club come from higher up the chain but it's also possible that Ange is not the right guy to oversee the rebuild.
Comment by harlokin at 10/03/2025 at 08:41 UTC*
87 upvotes, 4 direct replies
*What I don't get about the Ange out-ers is, given our track record of new managers, what makes them think anything will change?*
All that matters is whether one considers Ange to be capable of ever being a success with us, or not - it is irrelevant whether previous managers have failed, or even if the next one might not do well.
I believe that Ange is out of his depth, and the rebuild is more than just him. Our biggest problem has not been changing manager too frequently, but hiring wildly different individuals, with each wanting/needing a squad overhaul. That should not now be the case with the new setup at the club.
Comment by PrinceGoGo999 at 10/03/2025 at 08:19 UTC
54 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Just to comment on one point: Iraola or Silva would come here because a) they'd earn way more, b) they'd have a bigger transfer budget, c) the squad is better than 13th place, d) top managers are very confident and have a lot of self belief. They won't think "oh, X, y, and z failed there, I'll fail too", they'll think, "I'm gonna be the guy who can achieve success there".
Comment by COYS1989 at 10/03/2025 at 08:36 UTC
99 upvotes, 4 direct replies
He’s proven nothing bar 10 games of last season that he needs to stay, dross football for just about every game, we are so easy to play against and so easy to defend against again for the majority of games.
People keep throwing this “rebuild” around from Poch and misinterpreting what he actually meant and they keep saying as if it’s gospel. Plus you can still rebuild your team whilst also changing managers.
We took a chance on him, there’s no shame in that but it just hasn’t worked out, we can’t put faith in a manager who completely gets out coached nearly every game. We have been in shocking form since the Chelsea home game last season.
Respectively Iraola and Silva would most likely join us because we are a bigger club and offer more money.
Comment by nakedgodiva at 10/03/2025 at 09:45 UTC
35 upvotes, 1 direct replies
This is not an argument it’s religion. How would I know when to end the project by this reasoning? Most projects fail, a project happening is not a justification for its maintenance not in any domain in life let alone football.
Setting us up to be dependent on two senior defenders and then being allowed a carte Blanche to fail when those players are injured is not gonna be a recipe for success or a project many will get behind.
May I remind everyone we are Tottenham not Ange Projectoglu FC
Comment by KeithBeans at 10/03/2025 at 08:54 UTC*
31 upvotes, 1 direct replies
What I don’t get about the Ange out-ers is, given our track record of new manager, what makes them think anything will change?
So it’s not remotely possible that we’ve hired the wrong manager? We can’t ever hire anyone who could do an even slightly better job than the current manager?
We’re mid-rebuild
Ange isn’t the rebuild, he’s just one of the managers in charge at one point whilst we’re trying to fix issues with the squad. Replacing him with a different manager does absolutely nothing to stop us from continuing to rebuild the squad
Comment by No-Custard5440 at 10/03/2025 at 09:24 UTC
17 upvotes, 1 direct replies
"what does ange outers think will change?"
Results. We have the worst PL record weve had in like 30 years. Beating city 4-0 away doesnt change the fact weve been absolutely woeful for anges whole tenure with the exception of his first 10 games. Banging on about the "rebuild" only works when Theres progression. We havent taken any steps in the right direction. Do we need to get relegated for people to stop regurgitating "rebuild" constantly? Shouldnt the worst PL record in 30 years be enough to finally realize ange isnt the end all be all?
"Why would iraola/Silva come here?"
I see this shit time and time again and its just so stupid. We got Conte who was regarded a top 3 manager in the world at the time when we were an absolute trainwreck under nuno. We had slot twerking for us and wouldve gotten him if we paid what Feyenoord asked for. We were close to nagelsmann and Luis Enrique. We are one of the biggest clubs in the world and wed be able to pay five times what Bournemouth pay iraola.
Comment by Jose_out at 10/03/2025 at 09:53 UTC
23 upvotes, 2 direct replies
What has Ange shown to deserve more time? We've been awful since his first 10 games.
This will be the first time in 17 years we've finished outside the top 8.
I get under Levy/ENIC we're unlikely to ever compete regularly for big titles but Poch and Redknapp have shown we're capable of being top 4 under the structure.
Iraola showed yesterday just how much better an inferior squad can be coached. We have regressed under Ange and look tactically clueless. He cannot be our manager next season barring a miraculous turnaround.
Comment by JalopyStudios at 10/03/2025 at 08:43 UTC
13 upvotes, 4 direct replies
I always hear this "rebuild" mantra from the Ange-inners.
What are we trying to rebuild?
Chelsea and Real Madrid don't bother with "rebuild" projects. If a manager is not working out for them, they sack him and bring in another.
Sometimes you have to keep sacking managers until you get one that works. It's evidently a viable strategy.
Comment by Ok_Act4535 at 10/03/2025 at 09:46 UTC
12 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm starting to have dark thoughts. If we're projecting forward- Something has to be a plan before it becomes a good plan.
Are we being gaslit into thinking Ange plays attacking football or something?
Van De Ven and Romero are tremendous players but i'm told theyre the key to unlocking everything for us? That doesnt sound like a good plan
I cannot get over how fragile we look when we're running back towards our own goal, some of our players look like its the first time theyve seen an attacking midfielder with the ball at their feet. They look offended
so shit defending, and crap attacking = what?
Comment by JeffTheGoliath at 10/03/2025 at 08:58 UTC
21 upvotes, 4 direct replies
My take on the situation is that we've just come out of a dreadful period and the team aren't playing with confidence, with players that have either been overplayed or haven't played in months. We have changed the team profile massively over the past 18 months (or thereabouts)... the squad for yesterday only 8 out of the 20 were here before Ange - and three of those were the midfield starting 3.
Injuries fucked us for the past 3 months, now we need confidence... but the situation within the stadium is toxic while we are underperforming.
We need to win on Thursday, coming back to salvage a draw yesterday hopefully gave the team some confidence.
Personally I have been Ange in this entire time, I'm done with chopping and changing managers every 18 months, its done nothing for the club. I'd give him to the end of the season and see how we are then.
In my mind what we need is a strong DM to protect the central defenders. Biss is too inconsistent, and then a way to break a low block defence.
The positive note is how essential Bergvall has become to the midfield - we are better when he plays - my ideal Mid 3 would be (new DM) Bergvall & Kulu - with Madders, Sarr & Gray as back ups (or try Gray out as 6 now we have Cuti & Mickey back.
Comment by strangetines at 10/03/2025 at 09:10 UTC
17 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Let me help you out - Ange is 100% leaving this club, he's almost certainly going to do so after having his contract terminated (which I believe is done mutually because you can't just sack people in the UK for being bad at their job). The question is always *when* not if. It would be really nice to land ~~pochettino~~ someone like klopp or pep who stays for ages and who genuinely seems to adopt the club as something fond to them and not just a high paying job in a profession where pretense and fakery are the norm. That's the *fucking dream baby* but look at us...look at the fucking state of us, we play miserable football and are having our worst season in *decades*, there's nothing here to suggest Ange is the one or even *not the worst manager we've had since Christian gross*. In fact he's explicitly the worst manager we've had since Christian gross, who was working with an absolute shambles of a squad compared to this current one.
He's done a really bad job in his two seasons. It started well, went downhill, looked a bit hopeful until Ipswich at home and has been *painfully bad* ever since. We're off the back of three wins and a draw in the past five games, five favourable fixtures, and we've not looked convincing at any point, we could just as easily have lost *all of these games* and have come out of them with almost half the xg for as xg against. It's shamiferous stuff.
Rebuild doesn't mean *shit* it means you replace players with other players. It's a madness that people think it means the team has to be shit for an undefined period.
Comment by Splattergun at 10/03/2025 at 10:46 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I am against sacking him now but I struggle to see how anyone can be "Ange In" at the moment. I am solidly against another unstable end to the season with a temp manager, but performances are WAY off what we need.
I don't think the squad is close to where we need it to be, for many reasons. We have major fitness issues through ST and CB which will always hamper us, and our midfield is lacking a lot of quality, to the extent we need at least 2 first teamers in (Gomes hopefully and a proper 6). We severely lack technical ability in attack too, with Son and Johnson looking like dead ends half the time. Odobert and Moore are a different profile and hopefully they come good and Tel seems to replace Werner so I feel we are a tricky winger short.
That said, I have seen very little from the side since the City match at Etihad and we've had some real barren spells. I put most of it down to injuries both last season and this but we can't forever say "what if". If we don't see major performance improvements in this run-in it is clear he has to change.
There is a possibility as well that we get investment into the club and the investors are involved in getting a new manager in place as well. In a way it makes a lot of sense.
Comment by lost-mypasswordagain at 10/03/2025 at 11:56 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
The only question is:
Is this the guy you want to break the cycle for?
I 100% agree we need a manager for the long haul (or what passes for the ‘long haul’ these days) but I’m not convinced this is the one.
We’ve got a handful of matches and a cup left in this otherwise completely wasted season. We can’t lose much by letting him finish out the string and deciding over the summer.
Comment by Icy-Station-2515 at 10/03/2025 at 14:15 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Ange is the worst manager in the premier league era. Plenty can change. This is not the ceiling even with the limitations for Levy. The team just continues to get worse.
Comment by Bowleshighschoolpic at 10/03/2025 at 15:24 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
We aren’t demanding success now, we are 13th in the league. At this point the only way to save his job is a Europa win, but prior to the season 6th/7th without a trophy would mean his job is safe till next season
Comment by warboys35 at 10/03/2025 at 10:27 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
We might as well give him until the end of the season, but I’m fed up now of this awful football, we’re barely creating anything.
I actually thought we’d lose yesterday and I’m not usually so pessimistic about us . Watching psg the other night and how they zipped the ball about so quick made me jealous.
I think he should go in the summer regardless
Comment by scottyj1994 at 10/03/2025 at 08:19 UTC
7 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Couldn't agree more mate. I am 31 so have been going since 1999. I can only remember around 2002 onwards though and really remember from 2006ish.
Unfortunately there will always be those types who just go to moan and it has got much worse since the move to the new stadium.
The happiest days we're under Jol, Harry when expectations and prices weren't as high and then under Poch because we were so good. Ange brought back a good feeling for a while which I hope can return under him again.
Keep positive, there are others like you out there. Ignore the wankers.
Comment by deafpish at 10/03/2025 at 11:34 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Negativity and pessimism is a reaction to the reality of the situation because most fans have basic standards and only operate on blind faith up to a certain point.
If you don't get why people think we can do better than this manager after 19 losses, awful football and seeing the same structural issues every week that are obvious to the point your nan who doesn't care about football could point them out, there's nothing to say.
Also, it's funny when people talk about "negative" fans but also say take the completely fatalistic approach of "what's the point in changing the manager" who is the one of the worst we've ever had. Let's just watch dross every week as we sink lower and lower because there is no point in changing the manager. That's a really positive way of looking at things.
Comment by jugsmynaughts at 10/03/2025 at 16:41 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Going to the stadium is a pretty brutal experience. So much negativity.
Comment by fivo7 at 10/03/2025 at 09:09 UTC
4 upvotes, 1 direct replies
many spurs fans have no connection with the team and by team i mean squad, players and manager, its a corporate mentality, i pay money go win stuff, you got injuries couldn't care less.
can't build anything on that
to them the players ae easily expendible, not invested in them, should they get a poor results , yet when you talk of history it's people like gazza, hoddle waddle , lineker, venables that make up spurs history
so when many of them shout coys it's for the badge, not the people wearing it, like a brand
they will only give support when they win something til then they are on their own
that's part of it
Comment by cocopopped at 10/03/2025 at 08:50 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I shall preface this by stating that I am Ange in.
😂😂😂
Comment by Sad_Amphibian_4651 at 10/03/2025 at 13:00 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Ange isn't good enough when the squad is healthy. He lost 6 of 9 to bottle a champions League spot at the end of last season. With a healthy squad, his team is near the bottom of the league in big chances allowed. There's a reason he's late fifties and has never managed in a big five league until Spurs.
As far as whats next, please stop this "another 18 month lost" meme. If they hire the right coach they can excel almost immediately. Unai Emery took Villa from 17th to near CL in 24 matches.
Spurs are a disorganized mess and I can see someone like Thomas Frank upgrading performances almost immediately.
Comment by Dry_Yogurt1992 at 10/03/2025 at 13:10 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
What I don't get about the Ange out-ers is, given our track record of new managers, what makes them think anything will change?
The craziest thing is how some of our fans have been gaslit into thinking our current form is in anyway normal. I keep hearing things like 'what will change', 'same old 18 month cycle', as if this is some continuation of our long-running form.
It's not. Before Ange Spurs were a team aiming to qualify (and often qualifying) for the Champions League. Now we're a team celebrating a home draw against Bournemouth. It's totally bonkers.
When Conte left we were 4th in the league. I think there are now 8 teams in the league who are comfortably better than us. Even with a fully fit team I wouldnt back Ange getting wins against Newcastle, Villa, Forest, and Bournemouth so he's clearly not at the required level for this job.
Comment by Albannach5446 at 10/03/2025 at 09:28 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I agree for the most part, but if we brought in a similar minded manager (attack over defence, exciting over boring, etc) then the rebuild could continue.
I will say however, I think we aren’t seeing any of Angeball. The big things we see pop up in every single team he’s coached for 20 years is: wingers, fullbacks, and 8s constantly rotating and playing off each other; wingers taking on players along the by line and cutting it back; strikers pulling CBs to stretch the opposition; speed and relentlessness to crush the opposition; and high press. How much of that did we see yesterday, or any of our last 2 months of games? I’d say none. Not one bit. The midfield looks empty and overrun because the rotation with wingers and full backs simply isn’t happening, people are just standing there watching flat footed. Our wingers are shit or tired and not one of them is trying to burn the man on the outside or even take them on (looking at you Brennan). Solanke has to keep dropping into midfield because of the aforementioned midfield issues, so can’t stretch the CBs. Absolutely zero speed, we get the ball and even when we CAN pass quickly through and there’s enough space to play our game, we instead recycle back. At this stage literally only our striker is pressing, and everyone else seems to have just given up. What’s more likely: a man so married to his principles that it’s become a meme suddenly giving up on those principles after 20 years of success with them, or the team being tired and worn out and not actually playing the tactics?
So to the people who say Ange isn’t producing results, I absolutely agree, but I don’t think it’s his tactics because we aren’t playing them. I think his failing is in motivating the players to actually fucking do the game plan. If he can’t do that, it’s just as much a failure as if he had shit tactics and he should go. But his football can produce decent results, we’ve seen it.
TLDR: Ange is rightly losing support, but I don’t think Angeball should be dismissed as the failure the Ange outters seem to think it is, because we aren’t playing it right now.