created by lazy_like_a_fox on 14/06/2021 at 20:08 UTC*
0 upvotes, 290 top-level comments (showing 25)
Hi redditors,
We are making some changes that limit access to removed or deleted posts on Reddit. This includes posts deleted by the original poster (OP) and posts removed by moderators or Reddit admins for violating Reddit’s policies or a community’s rules.
Stumbling across removed and deleted posts that still have titles, comments, or links visible can be a confusing and negative experience for users, particularly people who are new to Reddit. It’s also not a great experience for users who deleted their posts. To ensure that these posts are no longer viewable on the site, we will limit access to deleted and removed posts that would have been previously accessible to users via direct URL.
Starting June 14th, the entire page (which includes the comments, titles, links, etc.) for user-deleted posts will no longer be accessible to any users, including the OP. Any user who tries to access a direct URL to a user-deleted post will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
For posts removed by moderators, auto-moderator, or Reddit admins, we are limiting access to post pages with less than two comments *and* less than two upvotes (we will slowly increase these thresholds over time). Again, this only applies to removed posts that would have been previously accessible from a direct URL. The OP, the moderators of the subreddit where the content was posted, and Reddit admins will still have access to the removed content and removal messaging. Anyone else who tries to access the content will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
We want people to see the best content on Reddit, so we hope this strikes a balance between allowing users to understand why their content has been removed by moderators or Reddit admins and ensuring that post pages for content that violates rules are no longer accessible to other users.
We’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback on this change. I’ll be here to answer your questions.
Comment by txmadison at 14/06/2021 at 20:24 UTC
236 upvotes, 4 direct replies
So now users won't be able to see the removal reason for removed posts, only the OP and the moderators who removed it.
What happens if a mod removes a post and then the OP deletes it? Everything is inaccessible to everyone now?
This is a terrible change, who tested this? Where/in what subs?
Comment by Georgy_K_Zhukov at 14/06/2021 at 21:54 UTC
153 upvotes, 8 direct replies
User-deleted Posts
Starting June 14th, the entire page (which includes the comments, titles, links, etc.) for user-deleted posts will no longer be accessible to any users, including the OP. Any user who tries to access a direct URL to a user-deleted post will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
This sounds terrible... in /r/AskHistorians I have quite a few old answers which I wrote, and quite like, and for whatever reason, down the road the OP deleted the thread. Can I no longer see my own comments in that thread?
Likewise we have a lot of old answers in our FAQ which are in the same boat.
Will this still apply if you are going to the direct permalink to the comment? Or will they be visible at least when you do that? Because otherwise you are just allowing the OP of the thread to destroy the work others might have done. This is *especially* problematic for us because we often will have users who ask questions, don't like the answer they get so delete the thread. This is now just a middle finger to the person who took the time to correct them if I'm understanding correctly.
Comment by MajorParadox at 14/06/2021 at 20:15 UTC
145 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Starting June 14th, the entire page (which includes the comments, titles, links, etc.) for user-deleted posts will no longer be accessible to any users, including the OP
Does that include mods? I would hope not because we may need to moderate the comments, or even check conversations if we come arcoss a user's comment in our subreddit.
Any user who tries to access a direct URL to a user-deleted post will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
Anyone else who tries to access the content will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
Please don't just redirect them. Give some kind of indicator that the post was deleted or removed. Otherwise it will just create more confusion (which sounds like the opposite of the intent) and users will come to mods to ask what's wrong with it.
Comment by creesch at 14/06/2021 at 20:14 UTC
270 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Starting June 14th, the entire page (which includes the comments, titles, links, etc.) for user-deleted posts will no longer be accessible to any users, including the OP. Any user who tries to access a direct URL to a user-deleted post will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
How about for moderators who might want to go through a comment section that was problematic for whatever reason after OP deleted the post?
Comment by reseph at 14/06/2021 at 20:13 UTC*
185 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Question from a moderator:
If a user is getting harassed or something similar in comments on their post, and OP deletes their post before mods review the offending comments (or they never report it and instead later send a modmail)... how will moderators moderate this or at least identify the bad actors if we cannot access the user-deleted post?
Additionally, how will moderators combat bad actors (or trolls) who intentionally post rule-violating posts and then delete the post before moderators are able to review the post?
[EDIT] I forgot to add, my mod team uses pinned comments to indicate removal reasons and be transparent with our userbase. The change regarding Removed Posts conflicts with this and impacts our ability to be transparent.
Comment by abrownn at 14/06/2021 at 20:22 UTC*
83 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Can we opt in to be able to see/visit those posts instead? How else are we supposed to track abuse? If a user deletes a post then we can’t visit it to flair it to find the username. For example spammers, marketers, astroturfers, etc know to delete posts when they get found out or actioned — why would you kneecap our ability to do due diligence under the guise of improving the new-user experience??? This is a terrible idea and ham fisted as fuck. Please for the love of God, reconsider and add an opt-in option. Bury it deep in the preferences if you have to, but do NOT make this harder for users who know what they’re doing.
You guys have rolled out some really dumb changes over the years but this fucking takes the cake. There isn’t a single happy person in this thread. **STOP**
EDIT: Anger aside, how about a compromise? The overwhelming majority of Redditors now use NewReddit and Reddit Apps. Why not leave the ability to visit these posts to OldReddit? People who still use OldReddit are likely long time users and know what they're doing and aren't "confused or discouraged" by deleted posts as you say. Removed posts were hidden for a while on profiles on NewReddit, why not make this a change like that instead? That way you can cater to the new users/app users while also not alienating power users and savvy users?
Comment by PitchforkAssistant at 14/06/2021 at 20:14 UTC
141 upvotes, 5 direct replies
I would prefer a concrete 404 page and return to subreddit button instead of an immediate redirect.
Comment by Deimorz at 14/06/2021 at 20:17 UTC
67 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Any effect on posts where the OP deleted their *account*, but didn't specifically delete the post first?
Comment by ral315 at 14/06/2021 at 20:37 UTC
59 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Why was this change made virtually immediately, and not brought up days or weeks before it was rolled out?
In the comments here, a couple of great points were made that apparently weren't on your radar - issues that mods will have with spammers creating posts and then deleting them before they're moderated, issues where a discussion post will lose all of its potentially-useful comments if an OP deletes their post, etc. These are things that should be talked about before instituting a significant change like this.
Comment by SeriousSamStone at 14/06/2021 at 21:49 UTC
59 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Let's say, theoretically, a spam ring that wants to post spam shopping links for some random product, let's say T-shirts, wants to do so without burning through as many bot accounts. They start making spam posts, having their alt accounts comment links to their theoretical dropshipping websites, and then half an hour or an hour later after scamming a dozen users, delete the post, taking all user reports and any proof of bot activity with them. In this highly unlikely theoretical scenario[1] that
, what tools are admins going to offer to help moderators prevent their subreddits from turning into a spam bot cesspool?
Comment by NathanielHudson at 14/06/2021 at 23:18 UTC*
48 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I mod a buy/sell/trade sub. This is **very** bad for us - malicious users will typically delete their posts after scamming somebody in order to attempt to hide evidence that can be used against them in a PayPal dispute or by mods investigating. In order to combat this, we save a copy of all posts into a top-level comment - but these changes mean those comments will no longer be accessible.
I’d strongly urge you to reconsider, or at least make it a per-community option. In the meantime please revert this - I recognize you’re working on updated functionality, but please don’t make our lives harder until that’s rolled out.
Comment by Itsthejoker at 14/06/2021 at 21:28 UTC
46 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Hey there, head mod for r/TranscribersOfReddit here. This change will directly affect us because one of the things our transcriptions are used for is making posts indexable by Google -- if the user deletes their post, then by this change it will delete our work too.
This will also make it much harder for us to work with volunteers who transcribe rule-breaking posts; we have a sanctions system in place and we need to know when volunteers break the rules of the parent sub. Short of modding one of our staff to *every single one of our partners*, that makes quality assurance on those transcriptions essentially impossible.
I recognize that we as a subreddit are not "normal" users, but this change does make our lives harder by a lot and decreases our effectiveness on this platform. I hope that you'll reconsider fully deploying this change.
Comment by [deleted] at 14/06/2021 at 20:49 UTC
43 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by PitchforkAssistant at 14/06/2021 at 20:13 UTC*
42 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Does this mean we won't be able to access comments on deleted posts anymore?
Edit: and what about direct links to comments under deleted posts?
Comment by [deleted] at 14/06/2021 at 20:19 UTC
138 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Oh my god NO, GOD, NO. This is the worst idea EVER. Do you have any idea of the vast history of relevant posts that were deleted or removed but are still useful and interesting to read?
Comment by dequeued at 14/06/2021 at 22:35 UTC
36 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Well, this is going to tie the hands of /r/BotDefense and this is frankly a terrible decision for the site in general. The main beneficiaries of this change will be spammers, scammers, astroturf campaigns, and other bad actors.
On /r/BotDefense, we **frequently** need to look at removed and deleted content from accounts in order to determine whether or not they are bots. In most cases, we are looking using an account that is not a moderator on the subreddit (even if /u/BotDefense is a moderator, we're obviously not using that account to review accounts).
Outside of the context of BotDefense, I frequently need to look at content that has been removed or deleted on other subreddits as part of moderating /r/personalfinance.
Comment by Kvothealar at 14/06/2021 at 21:01 UTC
36 upvotes, 1 direct replies
User-deleted Posts
Starting June 14th, the entire page (which includes the comments, titles, links, etc.) for user-deleted posts will no longer be accessible to any users, including the OP. Any user who tries to access a direct URL to a user-deleted post will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
As a moderator, we absolutely depend on this to stop users from scamming others on /r/GoForGold. This change could be an absolute nightmare for us, **please reconsider your choice to disallow moderators to access user-deleted posts**.
Our only option around this would be to create a reddit clone where we scrape all the data from every post. If that doesn't work and we lose the ability to stop scams on the subreddit, it could mean we would have to close-up shop if users caught on.
Comment by fartbath at 14/06/2021 at 23:50 UTC
38 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Jfc, even by "reddit admin" standards this is a **monumentally fucking terrible** idea.
You've just given spam houses carte blanche on your site while simultaneously gimping mods.
Wtg, I guess.
Comment by tumultuousness at 14/06/2021 at 20:45 UTC*
30 upvotes, 0 direct replies
So wait, this bug report[1] that I saw the other day, the post was removed and automod left the reason why, and the user said they couldnt see the comment (and also that they didn't have automod blocked). So is that the result of this? As in, the user won't be able to see comments on their removed posts now? So they don't get the reason why a post was removed, for the mod teams that actually set that up?
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/bugs/comments/nyowrt/i_dont_know_if_this_would_be_considered_a_bug_but/
And what about comments we've left on posts that are later deleted/removed, those disappear? Or just clicking them means we get the redirect?
Edit:
The OP, the moderators of the subreddit where the content was posted, and Reddit admins will still have access to the removed content and removal messaging. Anyone else who tries to access the content will be redirected to the community or profile page where the removed content was originally posted.
Ah, so that bug report is a separate thing then? Maybe a nevermind on the first part of my comment then.
Second Edit:
Speaking as a user and not a mod - I have a handful of saved links that are helpful comments in response to certain specific situations. Like, it's more helpful to be like "here is what an admin/mod/dev had to say about your situation" type comments. But some of these are on deleted/removed threads... So I can't use those comments as reference anymore? That's just super unfortunate.
Just earlier today I was providing a response to someone, based on a copy-paste of my comment from a post that someone eventually deleted after they got their answer - if comments on deleted/removed posts are gone (from post history? or just from a thread?), that means that my easy to find answer would have required a bit more finicky search.
Also, as a user and not a mod, I agree with /u/SeriousSamStone about spam. I very often revisit removed threads (and deleted threads, if I still have those links) to check if spam accounts were posting with alts, so I can report those as well - this change means that I wouldn't be able to check those.
Comment by Bainos at 14/06/2021 at 22:47 UTC
28 upvotes, 0 direct replies
One of the problems it will create for /r/anime is that we are going to lose a lot of content where the value is in comments, especially regarding our episode discussion threads and rewatches.
For example, we set up discussion threads like this one[1] where the individual posts were removed, and users could follow links from the central thread. This process of having the users participate in removed threads help us avoid cluttering the subreddit. We can try to find all removed threads and restore them, but this is going to be a difficult process. And for any that we miss, if the users can't understand why the target of a link was removed, they won't be able to point us in the right direction to rectify that.
In addition, we also have a lot of discussion posts that were made by users then deleted (which is why we switched to the current bot), and tons of rewatches[2] in which the OP provides a thread and topic, but it's the users that actually generate content and discussion. Some posters later decided to delete their posts or accounts, but the value of the comments therein still remains.
2: https://old.reddit.com/r/anime/wiki/rewatches
It is very regrettable for us to learn that this change will delete all this content eventually (once the limit is increased above the two comments you listed for now). If you could give some consideration to avoiding this type of content loss, that would certainly save a lot of valuable discussion over the years.
Comment by telchii at 14/06/2021 at 21:00 UTC*
29 upvotes, 0 direct replies
User-deleted Posts
Mods should still have access to the comments on user-deleted posts. I'll even argue that *everyone* should still be able to see the comments, but in a locked state, as people will delete their posts and accounts for large variety of reasons.
It's not uncommon for someone to post something that attracts jerks in the comments, which leads to the author deleting the thread before I can review it. (Life gets in the way, and sometimes mod-team unavailability just lines up.) As a mod, I should still be able to review the comments so I can moderate potentially shitty behavior.
Otherwise, I'm going to need third party tools to collect comments so I can actually moderate shitty behavior.
This also has the harmful effect of truncating information and historical discussion/reactions for community events.
/r/Kpop is a good example for this. Years ago, a prolific poster deleted all their posts, which removed many top-scoring posts of comeback music videos. They've still been accessible via direct URLs, sometimes showing up in discussions about the past.
Old /r/AskReddit threads would be killed off from Reddit history. Think of how different Reddit culture would be if we couldn't link people to the original "Today me... Tomorrow you." post, the jolly rancher story, or the Colby 2012 saga.
Removed Posts
This is a good change. One of my subs (for a game) discovered last year that Google was returning threads that were removed years prior. This lead to a lot of angry reports about removed content.
Comment by 2SP00KY4ME at 14/06/2021 at 20:21 UTC*
74 upvotes, 4 direct replies
To start I want to say that I'm not one of the "haters", I know you guys are working hard and actually do want to improve things. In this specific case, I have a few concerns:
1. So this means if someone makes a post that gets huge and inspires tons of interaction and lively debate, and the OP then decides to delete the post, everyone involved in that ongoing thread is just completely booted and they can't ever look back at the discussion? I don't like that.
2. This is making Reddit more like Facebook. The ability to completely erase all discussion if you don't like what they thought of it. That's the kind of thing that lets misinformation reign king. Someone posts something antivaxx and gets called out? They delete it, and now the refutation of that misinformation is gone.
3. You shouldn't give users free reign to delete all the comments on their posts, because that's what this boils down to. Someone pointed out your post history shows you're a liar? Where before that comment was staying there whether or not you deleted your post, now you can get rid of it and just try again until you don't get called out.
Comment by [deleted] at 14/06/2021 at 21:29 UTC
52 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Consider the following:
I create a throwaway account and create a load of posts userpinging a user telling them to kill themselves, but I delete them within 2 minutes of posting them, so there's very little chance of a mod seeing them. The user I ping, if they're using mobile, will still get bombarded with push notifications telling them to commit suicide but will be completely unable to report it, and mods won't be able to do anything because they'll have nothing to work with either. How's that going to work?
Comment by VEC7OR at 14/06/2021 at 21:53 UTC
26 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Thanks for nothing, as usual.
Fighting spam will become harder.
All those spam bots will use this to their advantage.
Comment by anastarawneh at 14/06/2021 at 23:26 UTC
25 upvotes, 1 direct replies
this is dumb
Stumbling across removed and deleted posts that still have titles, comments, or links visible can be a confusing and negative experience for users, particularly people who are new to Reddit.
Quite literally nobody complained about this, the only very slight issue some users had that’s even remotely related was when they’d be on the front page and click a post only to see that it’s been deleted before they refreshed the page. And this does nothing to fix that.
ensuring that post pages for content that violates rules are no longer accessible to other users.
This is already implemented, when a mod removes a post it shows up to a normal user as [removed]. The post is already hidden.
We’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback on this change.
Would you really? Why do admin teams keep saying that like it means anything?