https://www.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/comments/7zgu80/use_of_the_term_breeders_in_this_sub/
created by [deleted] on 22/02/2018 at 17:57 UTC
30 upvotes, 19 top-level comments (showing 19)
I may be alone in this, but when I see posts/comments referring to people who procreate as "breeders" it makes my skin crawl a little. I'm curious what other people's opinions of the term are. I'd personally refer to people who procreate as natalists or pro-natalists or something along those lines - neutral vs. charged language basically.
I've had the same experience (but on a lesser extent) on r/vegan with referring to people as "carnists" instead of "omnis". It also feels a bit reminiscent of "cuck" / "normie" / etc. that we see get used in certain subs (and I've occasionally seen here).
Disclaimer: I'm in no way suggesting there should be censoring people or anything. I'm just thinking we should possibly try to be mindful of how we come off to people discovering the sub if we're trying to represent ourselves as the logical and moral conclusion to an important ethical question: is it right to procreate, instead of being something like r/childfree
I know this sub also serves as a place for people to vent their frustrations, and often has a lot of really negative content as a result.
I guess I'm just worried people will come across the sub and then dismiss the idea of AN because they see a bunch of posts about how terrible "breeders" are and write off the philosophy.
Comment by sunnynihilist at 22/02/2018 at 22:53 UTC
47 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Personally I love it. The term "breeders" imply the mindless act of breeding, which I believe is applicable for a majority of "parents"
Comment by GenuineCowSwine at 22/02/2018 at 23:41 UTC
24 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I don't get why people roll their eyes at "breeder" when it literally means "one that breeds". I get that people think this means "breeds animals" but isn't that what parents do, propagate children like other breeders propagate sheep etc?
I don't use it as an insult it's just what breeders do, breed. It's easy to use, like a nickname.
Anyway if you dismiss AN because people are "mean" well brace yourself... the world is mean...
Whatever I'm open to anything, it's not like it matters in the long run ._.
Comment by PookiWooki at 23/02/2018 at 00:07 UTC
14 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The word "breeder" is accurate. A natalist or pronatalist is one who espouses a positive view of birth, regardless of their actions. A breeder breeds. Says Hamlet, "Why wouldst thou be a breeder of sinners?" (3.1). One either breeds or does not breed. "Parent" might be the more conventional word, but "breeder" has an easier, more incisive verb form. It's preferential.
Many people unfamiliar with antinatalism are going to be offended by it regardless of an antinatalist's use of "parent" or "breeder." The philosophy itself is more important than the linguistic preferences of its adherents or neophytes, nor is it philosophically rigourous to indulge *ad hominems*.
Comment by Black-Spruce at 22/02/2018 at 18:22 UTC
24 upvotes, 2 direct replies
It seems to be mainly used as a derogatory insult. But there is kind of a distinction between calling someone a breeder and a pronatalist. A breeder is someone who breeds (obviously), and a pronatalist is one who thinks people should breed, regardless of if they do it themselves.
Comment by [deleted] at 23/02/2018 at 06:31 UTC
8 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Yeah, I think we should stop calling them breeders - let's call them fuckheads instead.
Comment by [deleted] at 22/02/2018 at 21:46 UTC
11 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Whats wrong with the term "Breeder", its a an accurate term and isn't an insult unless you're an antinatalist.
I think you're too sensitive.
Comment by yAboyo_ at 23/02/2018 at 04:38 UTC*
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I am definitely guilty of this, but I do agree that it paints a bad picture for newcomers and I’ll try to use the term less frequently in the future. However, if I see a screencap of someone talking about how great and selfless they are for having a kid on Facebook, they gettin’ called a breeder.
Comment by Narcolplock at 23/02/2018 at 01:41 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Terms have their purposes but when people use them incorrectly or with obvious malice it reflects extremely poorly on their position.
I am a very strong supporter of eugenics and antinatalism, but not everyone conveys their points well and it can be extremely off putting even when I agree.
In another discussion we might talk about words like FAG and GAY as well as BREEDERS. While they may be used inappropriately it isn't until there is that malicious intent that it becomes outrightly offensive.
Comment by smuckola at 23/02/2018 at 06:50 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I completely agree about deliberately offensive use but I just try to carry on and seek the point of the conversation without letting it affect me like you do. But it is a logically valid term, though potentially callous.
However, one valid and inoffensive use of the term "breeder" is to describe those who really do view their own actions as nothing more than procreation and their children as spawn -- or who mindlessly don't think about it at all. I have no idea how many people those are, whether most people or one person (though I assume one begets the next one, multiplying their mentality with their population lol).
Breeder, that's what they want to be, that's what they let themselves be, and so they are.
I could use that selectively, sparingly, and not in mixed company.
Comment by lalafriday at 23/02/2018 at 17:24 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I don't know much about the incel sub or any of that so the term really doesn't bother me. In fact, I like it a lot. I even got my sister using it...and she IS a breeder.
It is kind of derogatory so I understand the dislike for the word. But that kind of censorship just seems like more pc bullshit to me. And I grew up in a town that work call you racist if you said "black" instead of "African American" so I'm kind of sick of that kind of thing. I also don't want to offend anyone...too much.
Comment by CrumbledFingers at 22/02/2018 at 19:24 UTC
7 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I fully agree, it's infantile and doesn't even make sense; a breeder is usually understood to be someone who breeds *animals*, such as on a farm or for horse racing or whatever. What's so hard about calling them 'parents'?
The bigger problem is that it reduces a person to a single act. The substance of antinatalism ends at the conclusion that procreation is immoral. There are many reasons to procreate, just no moral ones. Not everybody is moral all the time.
There are many kinds of people who procreate, and almost none of them deserve to be called childish names because they do it out of ignorance. Nobody procreates out of malice toward their offspring; it just never occurs to them to weigh that consideration in their decision, for reasons they can't consciously control. We don't do these people any favors by alienating them with sophomoric insults. That just decreases the chance that they will listen, and thus increases the chance they will bear children.
Comment by broccolisprout at 22/02/2018 at 20:11 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Agreed on all points. I find it hard to have a grownup conversation with someone who has ‘Ilovehatingmyself82’ as a handle. Yes, I get depression can easily lead to antinatalism, but I’m far more interested to explore the objective and logically sound reasoning behind the philosophy.
Comment by [deleted] at 22/02/2018 at 18:59 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
It makes me roll my eyes just a little.
Comment by SaintLanaDelRey at 22/02/2018 at 20:32 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I don't know what else term to use. Natalist is not a good term as not all natalists are breeders and some are conditional natalist (such as myself in a way). Breeder is very precise term and it is easy to understand what it means.
Comment by [deleted] at 22/02/2018 at 18:28 UTC*
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by [deleted] at 22/02/2018 at 18:20 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[removed]
Comment by ergocalciferol at 23/02/2018 at 20:12 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Although the term *is* correct and not inherently offensive, I think it offends people's sense of individuality by implying that breeding is all they do/who they are, they're breeders. But...we don't really see this when people use other broad labels like parent, mother, or father. So I believe its bad rep is mainly due to the negative association with non-human animals i.e., animals breed; humans make love and have families
Comment by So_inadequate at 25/02/2018 at 08:11 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Yeah it sounds sort of pretentious to me. But on the other hand, it makes it clear that those people actually have children.
Comment by Dependent_Map3138 at 09/12/2022 at 16:01 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Why would it make your skin crawl that's what they are.
Forcing innocent sentient beings to harmfulness of Life.
Breeders are Murderers.
Breeding should be a crime.