2028 upvotes, 51 direct replies (showing 25)
View submission: Let's talk content. AMA.
Honestly this sounds crazy to me, people suggest the killing of all blacks in coontown *all the time*.
I'm a black man, but I'm also a huge believer in free speech even in places like this where it isn't a legally protected right, so quite frankly I'm willing to put up with coontown if it means freedom across the board for everyone.
However,
If you're going to tell me that you can't talk about hating fat people or fantasizing about raping women, *but* can say "All niggers must die.", that's messed up and it really doesn't make me feel comfortable to be here as a person of color.
Edit: TL;DR, /r/coontown is responsible for things that are just as bad as some banned subs, either the banned ones come back or coontown should go.
4th and final edit: I appreciate the gold stranger!
Comment by ReducedToRubble at 17/07/2015 at 02:17 UTC
119 upvotes, 4 direct replies
This is exactly my attitude. If we're not banning anyone then subs like that get a free pass because, hey, everyone gets a free pass. But as soon as reddit decides to draw a line, as a community, we have to decide where the line is.
And I do *not* like how crooked it is. FWIW when I saw this AMA I went on coontown and found two posts in about 5mins of searching that advocate violence against black people.
This one here[1] has calls for a race war ("The race war is coming kids") in response to a confederate flag saying "It's time to put a foot down". One of the posters replies "Lift, Run, Shoot," which is a reference to a bowhunter who refers to himself as the "ultimate predator".
None of the posters, who are regulars and frequent contributors, reported this thread or the comments in in the **15 days** between when it was posted and I found it. Or if they did the moderators chose to do nothing.
Shortly after it was announced that Coontown would not be banned, they added a moderator in homage to Dylan Roof[2]. Take a look at that last one. FFS there's a mod named Eugenics and another named in homage to the KKK. Not advocating violence I'm sure.
Speaking of homages to Dylan Roof, what about this[3] linked article which says[4], and I quote:
I think that the White race’s problem is that there aren’t more White men who see the world around them in the truly sane and morally clear terms Breivik and Roof (apparently) think in, and act accordingly.
Kind of amazed at the mental gymnastics reddit Admins are doing to *keep* CoonTown. FFS I'm against banning subreddits, but if we're getting rid of places, that should be the *first fucking one*. They're not just being mean to people on the internet like FPH was, they're advocating real violence against people. This shit is rooted in a *real war*.
Comment by troglodyte at 16/07/2015 at 22:01 UTC
183 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Some of the responses to your excellent point raise an interesting question for spez, too. That's this:
When does a problem jump from *users* to the *entire subreddit*? As you point out, that subreddit is appalling and it's easy to find repeated examples of individuals clearly violating the ban-level rules. I wonder how reddit intends to enforce this; I get the distinction between hate speech and inciting violence, even if I find them both loathsome, but what's to stop moderators from claiming ignorance or incompetence? If the stated purpose of a subreddit is nonviolent hate speech but the moderators simply "missed that comment" or "weren't on when that happened" every time someone says something that violates ban rules, how does reddit deal with that?
I'm really troubled by the "dark underbelly" of reddit, and the fact that /u/spez used as an example a sub with deeply rooted violent speech is really troubling.
Comment by HideAndSheik at 16/07/2015 at 23:58 UTC
115 upvotes, 11 direct replies
Black lady here, this is exactly how I feel. I was never a member of /r/fatpeoplehate, and honestly /r/coontown getting removed isn't a top priority for me, but seriously, what the fuck did FPH do, *specifically*, to deserve being banned while so, soooo many subreddits do the same, or much worse? Is it really just because FPH got too big? Too noticeable? If so, I wish the admins would just fucking *say so*. I consider myself a reasonable person, and if the most honest answer is "We saw a dramatic loss in revenue after we noticed /r/fatpeoplehate trending in the news so we had to ban it," that kinda sucks, but at least I'd understand.
Comment by SteveEsquire at 17/07/2015 at 17:28 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Yeah I think in quite a few ways, FPH was less offensive than racist subreddits. But I think the whole ban on FPH has made the whole Reddit vs Freedom of Speech debate enormous. They're walking down a slippery slope now. Basically, I can easily say the following: "Reddit doesn't like people hating on fat people. But Reddit thinks it's fine to hate people for anything else, even race." Now they have to compare issues. Once you start banning things, you're walking on thin ice. Makes me wonder if banning FPH was the best choice. Eventually people will question why FPH and not others (like we are) and Reddit will become more and more limited. That might be good in many ways, but it definitely will make Reddit more constricted, for better or for worse. Banning all hate subreddits could cause outrage, or it could just make the harassers leave. Time will tell.
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 23:43 UTC
46 upvotes, 4 direct replies
Jesus dude. These fucking people. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. You are probably an awesome dad.
I have to agree with you. FPH being banned but coontown staying shows us how flawed their interpretation of these rules are going to be. Users have shared sufficient evidence that this sub is toxic and should be banned if ANY subs are banned.
SRS is also directly made for harassment of other redditors and yet admins continue to ignore direct questions about it. Apparently as long as it doesn't conflict with admin ideology you get a pass for harassment- otherwise you get the boot.
Too bad there aren't black people in the upper ranks of Reddit. Then they might care about coontown harassing you.
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 22:01 UTC
103 upvotes, 4 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by ryan_bigl at 17/07/2015 at 03:54 UTC
11 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Reddit doesn't care about black people.
Comment by Ojisan1 at 16/07/2015 at 22:11 UTC
22 upvotes, 2 direct replies
It seems like reclassifying the sub would have been the better way to handle FPH too, rather than banning it.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. In places in Europe where being pro-Nazism is banned, Nazism is on the rise. In the U.S. where being a Nazi is not banned, it is widely considered evil and stupid and most people will laugh at anyone claiming to be a Nazi. There's videos on YouTube of neo-Nazi rallies where the bigger crowd is the counter-protestors who are openly mocking and laughing at the neo-Nazi skinheads.
Banning FPH didn't stop people from hating on fat people. It just made them more entrenched in their asinine views and make them more virulent in spreading their message. I would think the same is true of coontown. Let them have their forum so we can all see what fools they really are.
And if subs are harassing then target the individuals doing it, not the entire sub. If it's the moderators who are harassing, target those individual mods but let the sub exist.
Tl;dr - There's more good people than shitty people.
Comment by Slickwats4 at 17/07/2015 at 00:07 UTC
29 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Coontown is far more disgusting than fat people hate to me, I really want to believe that these are immature people trying to troll that think they're funny, but I fear they are just ignorant, hate-filled bigots.
Comment by SeekingEnlightenment at 17/07/2015 at 01:21 UTC
14 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Agreed 100%. I think the real issue is /r/fatpeoplehate was not banned because of harassment, but spez nor reddit's admins will ever admit to that.
Comment by nushublushu at 17/07/2015 at 00:55 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
seems like dude is violating the harassment policy by following you around subs. he'd be due for a ban, no?
Comment by jessexpress at 16/07/2015 at 23:43 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
This this this. Honestly if I had my way, the subreddit would be banned but I'm not in charge here. If the decision is made to keep it up in the name of 'free speech' then so be it, but then of course the question is why are any other subreddits banned. And if others are being banned due to hateful/harassing content, surely CTown must be as well. There's a big contradiction going on here and I don't think it's helping Reddit improve part of its reputation, which is unfortunately that it has a large racist underbelly that goes mostly unchecked.
Comment by Dont____Panic at 17/07/2015 at 00:51 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Cool reply.
I support the existence of /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/coontown on grounds of open expression but agree with you and the changes suggested in preventing them from 'leaking' and ensuring that, while people can express their opinion, they cannot do so at the expense of everyone else enjoying Reddit.
It is often said that you do NOT have the right to avoid being offended in a broad sense, but in a group (such as a subreddit), you CAN exclude those who do not obey your standards of decency.
Comment by Nevrmorr at 17/07/2015 at 00:39 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
You're pointing right at the heart of the problem that Reddit will never solve. Very desirable behavior and very bad behavior are easy to spot, and most of us could agree on the specifics of those.
It's the boundary cases for which there really is no good answer.
One person might view racist comments as bad, but still within the bounds of free expression (as distasteful as those ideas are), while someone else could look at the same comments and insist that it's hate speech that should be banned. Who is Reddit to make the distinction in ways that are meaningful and consistent?
Reddit may think that it can somehow make these determinations, but there will always be glaring inconsistencies like one you're describing.
Comment by AutoDollarHouse at 17/07/2015 at 07:44 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Like George Bush, reddit does not care about black people.
Comment by [deleted] at 17/07/2015 at 02:04 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Hey brother. Great post. Why they are reluctant about banning Coontown amazes me. The double standard they have is truly disgusting.
Comment by TerriblePerso at 16/07/2015 at 22:35 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I absolutely agree with you. It makes me feel really uncomfortable too. If they ban one hate subreddit, they should ban all of them, as long as the concerns from users are more or less the same.
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 21:39 UTC
14 upvotes, 1 direct replies
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Comment by Soul_Purpose at 17/07/2015 at 05:55 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I am a black female and don't see how those subreddits get in trouble but this one is fucking allowed? I just don't get it.
Comment by BoutaBustMaNut at 17/07/2015 at 18:54 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I've been battling them in r/news constantly under a secondary account. They use news to push their agenda of hate.
Comment by landaaan at 17/07/2015 at 11:11 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Hey great post, it would be great if you could share it and maybe some more of your thoughts on r/subredditpurge
Comment by [deleted] at 17/07/2015 at 02:08 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Upvoting yours for visibility. Wow, I had no idea it was that bad, I guess I don't see the blatant horrific racism here since I am not in the subs like r/trueblackfathers or threads specifically targeted, it's a shock to learn of it, and glad I know now. Interesting, I have been in your shoes, (but as a female) in the context of people saying they've never seen the threats of violence and harrasment toward women on reddit - of course they haven't they aren't in the specific threads and subs where we do get these threats - I change usernames regularly for fear of doxxing or real life harrassment for being a female with opinions. \
Anyway, thanks for bringing that to light for me, I sort of suspected the racist harrassment here WAS that bad and I just hadn't seen it, now I know. I was ambivalent about /r/coontown before, but if they're advocating murder or violence and following you round, then I'd strongly support their banning (I am just a user, so no power, but I want to make my support for your position clear, to you and reddit admins by writing it down).
Comment by LegacyLemur at 17/07/2015 at 00:59 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
That video you posted of Green Eggs and Ham was awesome, by the way
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 22:04 UTC
-4 upvotes, 2 direct replies
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Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 21:50 UTC*
-4 upvotes, 2 direct replies
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