747 upvotes, 37 direct replies (showing 25)
View submission: Let's talk content. AMA.
I have been a redditor for a very long time, and I've been part of a range of kinds of communities that vary fairly significantly.
I am also a female who was raped, and this is something I have been opened about talking fairly frequently on reddit.
I disagree with the ban of the aforementioned sub, because I feel that it sets a precedent depending on what the society deems appropriate to think about, and what it does not.
Please note, that I can not and do not pretend to speak for any woman who was raped besides myself.
What I am concerned with is this distinct drawing of a line between the people who own the site, and the people who create the content on the site. Reddit appealed to me because it was the closest thing to a speaking democracy I could find in my entire existence, utilizing technology in a way that is almost impossible to recreate across large populations of people otherwise.
This sequence of events marks this as a departure from that construct. From today onwards, I know that I am not seeing clusters of people with every aspect of their humanity shown, as ugly as it may be sometimes. I feel that it is not the subreddit that causes subs like /r/rapingwomen to exist, but this stems from a larger cultural problem. Hiding it or sweeping it under a rug from the masses is not what solves the problem; I have already lived under those rules and I have seen them to be ineffective at best and traumatizing / mentally warping at worst.
People's minds should not be ruled over by the minds of other people, and that is what I feel this has become. Internet content is thought content, idea content. It is not the act of violence - these are two very separate things. You can construct a society that appears to value and cherish women's rights in the highest regard, and yet the truth can be the furthest thing from it.
I really would hope that you would reconsider your position. To take away the right of being able to know with certainty that one can speak freely without fear, I don't have many words to offer that fully express my sadness at that.
The problem is not the banning of specifics. The problem is how it affects how people reason afterwards about their expectations of the site and their interactions with others. It sets up new social constructs and new social rules, and will alter things significantly, even fractions of things you would not expect. It is like a butterfly effect across the mind, to believe you can speak freely, and to have that taken away.
Comment by nihilisticzealot at 16/07/2015 at 22:16 UTC
140 upvotes, 4 direct replies
The problem, as I see it, with subs like this (which will remain forever blue to me), is not just that they present a world view that we find offensive, but rather they foster an environment where this sort of mindset given some normalcy.
As a dude, I hear guys talking about how "women" as a gender are a problem for them. Usually after a break-up, usually by the young and stupid, and usually after several beers. A proper person feels embarrassed later as having said those things, and realizes that to blame a gender for one's own personal woes is a juvenile thing to do. But what if they don't? What if they have the kind of sick mind that starts to believe women are to blame for all that ails him?
Well, he might go to the internet and find communities of people who feel the same way as him, because he sure as shit is not going to find a guy with a sandwich board for "Misogynists Unite!" walking down the street. Do these internet communities drive someone to commit heinous acts? No, but they reinforce, protect, and cherish the idea that raping a woman is not horrible. That wanting to do these things is OK.
If there was a /r/punchpeoplewithmoustaches that had as much traffic and content as /r/rapingwomen, I would be seriously concerned for my safety walking down the street, and that isn't even including the history of violence against women in our society. I think you're right, this stuff shouldn't be swept under the rug, that there are discussions we need to have. But could we have those discussions without making it easy for wannabe rapists to find one another and feel good about themselves?
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 23:22 UTC
88 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Sorry but as a woman who also was raped, I am glad to see that subreddit gone. Its users stalked a subreddit meant for supporting rape survivors, which I think counts as intimidating that subreddit's userbase. Even without such behavior, the mere advocacy of violence against a group (women) is enough for me to want it to be vaporized, because that in itself is harmful.
Comment by [deleted] at 17/07/2015 at 02:19 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
An alternate viewpoint. I was raped (as a child) it was videod, I always suspect that that video has since been digitised, and websites like reddit allow people interested in those kinds of videos to meet, and form communities, and perhaps they don't share their videos, tips on raping and more flagrant cruelties on reddit itself, but this provides them the medium to meet up to organise these exchanges.
I wonder if your rapist is now sharing his tips and how tos (and videos of the act if he took one) with others that share his predilictions, whom he could easily meet and exchange details with via subs like rapingwomen.
Comment by Spacegod87 at 17/07/2015 at 01:17 UTC
39 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Are you kidding me? You honestly don't believe that some of the sick minds in this world won't go to that subreddit and have their desires to rape women confirmed, and even get clues on how to do it? It's encouraging these twisted fucks. I don't care how you justify it, it's saying to these men that raping women is okay. It needs to go.
Comment by CodnmeDuchess at 17/07/2015 at 00:29 UTC*
13 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I disagree. I think we have a duty to determine, collectively, what types of conduct we will and won't tolerate--as a society at large and a subset of that society here on reddit. It's not about hurt feelings, it's about right and wrong--allowing that type of irrational hatred to exist creates pockets of society that foster, cultivate, and groom people--that reinforces that type of behavior--and it becomes cancerous and almost inevitably spreads not only throughout this community, but into people's offline lives as well. That's just my two cents though.
Comment by AvatarOfMomus at 17/07/2015 at 07:37 UTC
7 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I have been a redditor for a very long time....
... this is something I have been opened about talking fairly frequently on reddit.
redditor for 5 days
Right... this checks out >.>
Comment by 97878451 at 17/07/2015 at 05:40 UTC
42 upvotes, 0 direct replies
This account is 5 days old, supposedly belonging to a raped woman advocating for /r/rapingwomen.
How are people falling for this?!
Comment by p_velocity at 17/07/2015 at 04:32 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
you give rapists way too much credit for having rational sane thought processes.
Comment by Aon_from_accounting at 16/07/2015 at 23:51 UTC*
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I really, really appreciate your comment. It's insightful, thought provoking, well thought out, and clear as a bell. It's this sentiment that made me love reddit as much as I do as well, and it's comments like these that have kept me here over the years because reddit as a whole, for lack of a better term, has made me feel like I'm not the only one who feels like this.
That being said, all of this will be ignored, and none of it matters to what's on the table, the actions reddit is about to take, and why they're taking them.
They're banning /r/rapingwomen because it garners negative press, which in turn scares away advertisers and leaves them answering uncomfortable questions at investment meetings and social gatherings. The exact same truth is what lies behind the banning of /r/jailbait, /r/creepshots, and /r/thefappening (with the added benefit of lawyers being involved in that one). /r/fatpeoplehate was banned because of the commerical interest reddit shares with Imgur and Imgur staff members being called out and "harrassed" by members of FPH.
I'll continue to use reddit until /r/gamedeals starts to suck (if it ever does) so I'm not one of these "I'm going to voat!" like people, but at the same time I'm saddened. I was never a fan of any of the reddits banned, but I was not happy about any of their bannings for the same reasons you are expressing. They were there to show the parts of our society that we don't like. Just because they're banned doesn't mean they don't exist. I'd much rather they were out in the open and that we didn't have this terrible mentality that just because we shove things like this under the rug means we're ok now and everything is status quo.
The FBI/Attorney General has tried many cases against the porn industry for violating "community standards." These trials have happened in the same communities where cable companies report large portions of their profits coming from pay-per-view porn. This line of reasoning, "because I don't like this thing it shouldn't exist" is no different then the crazy people who take over PTA groups and demand Harry Potter books be banned from school.
If you're offended, change the channel. It's an argument as old as the radio. There's a reason for that. I think the people who created reddit understood this argument loud and clear. Their previous statements support this conclusion. They're actions do not. Why? That's where the money comes in, and the rubber meets the road.
Edit (just cause it's still pissing me off): /r/fatpeoplehate gets banned and /r/coontown stays...[1]. Fewer things have ever made me feel the admins play favorites for their friends and care less then half a rats shit about anything else besides that and money.
1: https://i.imgur.com/gT9E86T.jpg
Comment by ApplicableSongLyric at 16/07/2015 at 21:33 UTC
30 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Plus, as a victim of sexual abuse, I find it to be VERY helpful in discussing and developing counter and protective strategies by peering into communities like this and seeing how the userbase ticks.
Information is POWER.
By stripping information and avenues of information away from us because some users don't know how to get out of their chair and walk away from their computer potentially endangers US.
Comment by royaltoiletface at 16/07/2015 at 21:44 UTC
14 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I don't believe that someone who was raped would use the fact so trivially just to give attention to a Reddit post. I'd like to point out I don't like the new batman vs superman teaser because my entire family was killed by ISIS.
Comment by novaskyd at 16/07/2015 at 21:17 UTC
28 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Thank you. As a woman I am glad to see my opinions shared by someone who has more right than most (I think) to say what they want done about the uglier parts of reddit. I value the "speaking democracy" of this site far more than I do whatever psychological safety would come from banning certain kinds of speech.
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 23:35 UTC
5 upvotes, 3 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by Eustace_Savage at 16/07/2015 at 21:17 UTC
17 upvotes, 0 direct replies
this stems from a larger cultural problem. Hiding it or sweeping it under a rug from the masses is not what solves the problem;
Beautifully said.
Comment by Orbitrix at 17/07/2015 at 08:27 UTC*
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I have been a redditor for a very long time
...
redditor for 5 days
I'm just giving you a hard time, I know there's plenty of good reasons you may have had other accounts, or simply been a lurker... but I still found this funny.
Anyways, I feel like you have a very levelheaded view on things, even despite your traumatizing personal experiences. I was trying to explain something very similar to a woman of color who was demanding /r/coontown be taken down, because even though they aren't "directly inciting violence", they (according to her) still "kind of are in a roundabout way, because hate speech inherently means violence"...
But the thing is: no.. no it doesn't, and no they aren't... and banning that subreddit solves nothing. It just causes those users to spread their bullshit elsewhere on the site, and might even embolden some of them to step up their game, and make things MUCH worse.... There is a much deeper root to the problem that causes something like /r/coontown to exist.... and for now, its a good thing they are all allowed to congregate in their own little sectioned off area on the site. that we can all safely avoid if we so choose.
Bad things in the world exist. Always will. Deal with it. The cost of free expression is high. Its not supposed to be easy. But its worth it.
Putting up with hearing speech you absolutely despise is exactly why you get to properly express yourself when the time comes. Life isn't suposed to be fair or easy, but one real nice trick is: If you can build up a thick skin to other peoples speech, you'll have a much easier time getting through life.... "Stick and stones...." etc...
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 21:22 UTC
11 upvotes, 2 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by marvin at 17/07/2015 at 10:30 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Thanks for this very well-reasoned argument. This is exactly what I would have said on the issue of free speech in a public forum, but couldn't be bothered to since my possibilities for affecting the policy change are non-existent.
Best of wishes =)
Comment by BourbonScotchWhiskey at 16/07/2015 at 21:34 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Redditor for 4 days. Checks out. Long time.
Comment by dpfagent at 16/07/2015 at 22:13 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
It sets up new social constructs and new social rules
that's the whole point! To make it clear that rape and murder are NOT ok.
Comment by [deleted] at 17/07/2015 at 04:27 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
[deleted]
Comment by SaitoHawkeye at 16/07/2015 at 21:16 UTC
-2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I have been a redditor for a very long time, and I've been part of a range of kinds of communities that vary fairly significantly.
redditor for 4 days
Leaning toward...you're a shill.
Comment by bizness_kitty at 16/07/2015 at 20:57 UTC
0 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Amen.
Fucked up people deserve a place to talk about fucked up things, as long as that is all it is.
Comment by [deleted] at 16/07/2015 at 23:08 UTC
0 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The problem is how it affects how people reason afterwards about their expectations of the site and their interactions with others. It sets up new social constructs and new social rules, and will alter things significantly, even fractions of things you would not expect.
Finally someone gets it. With these rules reddit will lose its uniqueness, it will be like any other forum on the net. The huge creative output or reddit comes from how free people feel here. People think that "oh people are doing this here? Then they might like my awkward stuff too". Look at 4chan, its responsible for 80% of the internets creative output for a reason.
I predict that in a few years will derange to the level of 9gag in a good case, or will meet the fate of digg.
Comment by StopCannibalismNow at 16/07/2015 at 22:19 UTC
-1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Thank you for saying this. As one of the Internet's greatest resources of open and free communication, reddit's role in the modern web cannot be understated, and should not yield to a technological environment threatened by misguided notions of political correctness.
Comment by colombiom at 16/07/2015 at 22:59 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
It's funny, I didn't even know that /r/rapingwomen existed until Steve brought it up. Would it be possible to ban controversial subreddits without giving them more attention than they deserve? Doubt it.
