124 upvotes, 26 direct replies (showing 25)
I’m not a history scholar, so I’d love to hear a more knowledgeable person’s thoughts on my opinion: I see 2021 America being very similar to 1970s Iran before the Iranian/Islamic Revolution. Except America has Evangelical Christianity instead of Islam. Is America on a downhill slide to becoming ruled by Evangelicals?
If so (More importantly), how do we prevent it?
Comment by seansandakn at 24/05/2021 at 12:53 UTC
85 upvotes, 6 direct replies
I don't think America is on a downhill slide to becoming ruled by Evangelicals. Although they're a surprisingly large part of the population, they aren't the majority at all and I would probably say that most people in America don't subscribe to those beliefs.
Comment by [deleted] at 24/05/2021 at 13:02 UTC
36 upvotes, 2 direct replies
It's weird but in america i think the cause is the cure. In a way. The more insane republicans/conservatives get the more democrats/liberals fight. And the more republicans/conservatives they lose. It's only a theory but it's based off the fact that america started out heavily conservative. And drifted toward liberalism over time because of conservative insanity.
Comment by Greatest-Comrade at 24/05/2021 at 13:34 UTC
6 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I think that the whole Satanic Panic and Moral Majority thing chamged the religous christian movement and their downfalls in that movement have shattered their reputation and left them powerless. There is no singular clergy that is really wealthy and powerful and persuasive like the Ulema is in Iran.
Comment by RowRowRowedHisBoat at 24/05/2021 at 13:28 UTC
9 upvotes, 0 direct replies
No, that would have been far more likely to occur in the 80s or 90s, when the Church was at its peak political power behind Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority movement. Which DRASTICALLY changed a lot of culture surrounding the church, and ultimately hurt the church severely. Creating a lot of the exact issues people are bringing up in this thread.
Comment by Crutation at 24/05/2021 at 14:12 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Evangelicals have been getting themselves put in government positions to prepare for their eventual control of it. Look at the Supreme Court, the last year and a half, they have ruled that churches are above the law, and that voter rights are a state level issue. The republicans have been carefully gerrymandering states to make certain they have complete control.
Comment by CrackersII at 24/05/2021 at 14:17 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I don't think so. What we're experiencing is the death cry of evangelicals and hardcore religious politics. As new generations have easy access to infinite data they are rejecting dogma more and more. You can't have an evangelical coup without evangelicals.
Comment by ajswdf at 24/05/2021 at 14:48 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Very unlikely because of racism and diversity. The white evangelicals who would be the US equivalent are also the ones who make being white a major part of their national identity, which puts a cap on how much support they can get even from minorities who would otherwise be on board. And the non-white percentage of the population is growing rapidly.
The only way they could succeed is if they moved away from the racial aspect, but to them the racial aspect is critical to them.
Comment by Boshwa at 24/05/2021 at 15:25 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Politics have become a religion in and of itself
Comment by malignantpolyp at 24/05/2021 at 17:28 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
There were a few more elements to it than that... The Shah was an unpopular American puppet installed when the CIA overthrew Iran's legitimate government in 1953.
Comment by SoutheasternComfort at 24/05/2021 at 18:21 UTC*
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
So much misinformation. How has no one mentioned that America and Great Britain set up the Islamic Revolution to happen by placing a puppet leader that was okay with giving away Iran's oil? Otherwise Iran was about to nationalize their oil so the west couldn't profit off of it. So they place in a puppet leader, and then in order to get rid of them Iran had to get behind the Islamic revolutionaries.
And the most insulting part, is 50 years later you forget about what you did, and then criticize ISLAM for all the geopolitical problems that your Western governments created. Like some of these people in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, they have very little.. They only have their faith and their God to comfort them. And then these smug evil people, after their government created all these problems, come in and say 'well the reason you have so many problems is probably because of your backwards beliefs. It's all your fault that you did this to yourself'
Seriously this conversation is disgusting and infuriating. I don't even have any other words
Comment by Petrovics1997 at 24/05/2021 at 20:57 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Considering the outstandingly low percentage of younger religious people, I think it's safe to say that the US (as well as most other countries) will be perfectly safe from any evangelist threats in less than 40 years.
Comment by lonewolfandsub at 25/05/2021 at 03:44 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I’m not a history scholar
You don't say
Comment by taosaur at 24/05/2021 at 14:41 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
My hope is that what we're seeing is more of a death rattle. It's not new that a significant minority is pushing for theocracy - it was the case when we wrote the Constitution, and it's a battle we've been fighting ever since. The Puritans you've probably heard about were exiles from England, where they briefly overthrew the monarchy under Cromwell and then got deposed themselves. Most of the more influential founding fathers were not all that religious - mostly deists and don't-bother-me-with-its rather than atheists - but it was still a fight to limit the Puritans' influence.
My sense is that the theocrats lost ground through most of the 20th century, from the Scopes "Monkey" Trial through the atom bombs to the counterculture movement of the 1960s, when newspapers printed headlines that "God Is Dead." About that same time, though, theocrats started lashing out - perhaps in panic - against that counterculture, against the Civil Rights Movement, and in the 1970s, the GOP got Catholic and Protestant fundamentalists to unite as a voting bloc behind the modern anti-abortion movement. Those weaponized "single issue voters" did claw back some influence in the 1980s, and of course we're recovering from another claw back period now, likely inspired by expanding LGBTQ rights and eight years under a black president.
My hope now is, as u/VitaminZebra said, they're overplaying their hand. They're clearly very worried in Texas. Trump tried more than once to rally the military to his side, and the Joint Chiefs weren't having it, which is encouraging. The current makeup of the courts is troubling.
How do we prevent the worst? Show up at local elections, every year. Run for office, or find good candidates and convince them to run for office. The more people actually participate, the harder it is to game the system, and the more resilient the system will be against more coup attempts.
Comment by lunchpadmcfat at 24/05/2021 at 14:52 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Well I’m not a scholar you’re looking for but I think the biggest thing we can do is stay vigilant. There will always be a sect of people with wrong ambitions trying to rise above and control everything. We need to make sure we support the pillars of our institutions. It’s unfortunate we lost the fight to hold conservatives accountable for trying to steal the election, but without smoking guns, it was a lost cause, and a political fight, which is basically just he said she said.
Vote logically, inform, repeat.
Comment by Arbysbeefncheddar at 24/05/2021 at 20:38 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think part is it is that things typically tend to 'scream' as they begin to die. I went back to church on mother's day bc my grandma had asked me to. I grew up in this church with a lot of my classmates. Most of them no longer attend. The congregation was majority 40 years or more in age, and one more than one occasion someone said to me 'glad to see young people in the church today' (I'm 28).
Young people have no interest in the church anymore, likely because they see what it's doing to our society. For example after the election this same grandma told me she was concerned about having to 'flee' into the mountains to practice her faith because of the 'leftists'. Yes, the president who attends mass weekly is going to start persecuting christians, and all your hopes lie on the back of the guy who has had multiple divorces, greedy as a motherfucker and can't even hold the bible in the right orientation for his planned photo op. Religion is a mental illness for these people.
All in all to say I think these are just the death throes of the church. They will rage and rage that 'satan' is taking over when it's really them just putting people off of it.
Comment by [deleted] at 25/05/2021 at 02:28 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'm no history scholar
I can tell...
In short. The US currently is almost nothing like 1970s Iran. Literally everyone here is conflating being religious and a politician as church and state not being separate. Probably the same kind of people who think being against abortion is solely due too religious beliefs.
The average Christian now, is way more tolerant and with the times the the average middle eastern Muslim.
Comment by Dubcekification at 24/05/2021 at 14:04 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I'm not going to address your first question too much. But there is a movement of non religious people who are behaving in a religious manner in regards to blasphemy and bullying. How do we prevent it? Freedoms of speech. Allow ideas, of all kinds, to be openly discussed and debated. Don't accept soundbites, buzzwords, and 5 minute segments on important topics to be considered acceptable. Over time the best ideas will rise to the top when all ideas are allowed to get discussed and debated. Now some will say some ideas are so abhorrent and stupid we shouldn't let them have any time. That's dumb. If the idea is truly so bad then it should be easy to dismantle it in an open discussion or debate. By shutting down discussion people give more credit than they realize to these bad ideas.
Comment by afternoon_spray at 24/05/2021 at 14:15 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Recommended reading: "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America" by: Chris Hedges and [this article] (https://www.salon.com/2020/01/03/onward-christian-fascists_partner/[1]).
1: https://www.salon.com/2020/01/03/onward-christian-fascists_partner/
In short, the assault of the Evangelical Right on American Democracy has been going on since the 70's. Trump's presidency certainly empowered this movement and allowed them to put more people in positions of power. The next several years will be vital in protecting our democracy from this movement.
Comment by Nyxelestia at 24/05/2021 at 16:49 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The Handmaid's Tale was literally inspired by "what if the Iranian Islamic Revolution happened in the U.S.?"
Comment by devilbaneX at 24/05/2021 at 15:56 UTC
1 upvotes, 2 direct replies
You are correct, you are not a history scholar. The downward slide of America is due to the turning away from Christian values not toward them. American values were, in most cases, Christian values and now it is anything but. Most of those who claim Christianity are in fact in name only and know little to nothing about it. America needs to repent and turn from it’s wickedness or face severe judgment. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mathew 7:14
Comment by TheDeadlySquid at 24/05/2021 at 14:34 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I refer to it as the American Taliban.
Comment by CuntyAnne_Conway at 24/05/2021 at 15:47 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Is America on a downhill slide to becoming ruled by Evangelicals?
Fuck NO. There aren't enough of them to control the whole continent. They might cause the 2nd American Civil War, which could "Balkanize" the country/continent. But the insane Fundies arent taking over everything.
At best they get the South and some of the MidWest. But their advance would stop HARD at the West Coast.
And I will give my life to make sure they never control it all.
Comment by gilbes at 24/05/2021 at 17:15 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Is America on a downhill slide to becoming ruled by Evangelicals?
America is on a downhill slide that it might not be able to recover from. Just the latest example of this: 5 months ago the head of a political party launched a terrorist attack on the capitol to end democracy and install himself as dictator. The the time since, nothing has been done to address this. They tried to remove the terrorist from office, but his political party said no so that didn't happen. The farthest they have gotten is asking the political party that tried to end democracy if they can be investigated, and that political party has said no to that as well.
As far as the people go, they are poor and exhausted from being exploited. Wages are down, productivity is up, everything is more expensive. People work harder for less pay for stuff they can't afford.
American's don't have reasonable access to basic services like health care or higher education. No one with any political power is or has been trying to actually address the root cause of this because the government profits from it.
Capitalism doesn't exist in the USA. Instead, we have this weird form of corporate communism. The state doesn't own large companies directly. Instead, the companies own the politicians. So the state owns business indirectly though the business's ownership of the state. An inordinate amount of government revenue and debt is spent on welfare for large companies. In capitalism, bad businesses fail and are replaced by better ones. In the USA, when a business amasses enough political power, they are not allowed to fail. They are allowed to create conditions where competitors fail. The big guys can make reckless and devastating moves with no consequence because the government keeps them alive with tax dollars. Business is the biggest welfare recipient in the USA.
Police kill and steal from citizens in the name of keeping order, and those actions are protected.
And so much more.
This shit is unsustainable.
The questions are how long will this last and what comes next. Unfortunately, unsustainable countries can last for decades. The USSR lasted for a while. North Korea is still going somehow. The USA's slide in to the 3rd world could continue for our lifetimes.
What comes next has two directions: self determined by America, determined for us by a comparable power. If it is self-determined, I don't think we will slide in to a theocracy. As loud as the Trump cultists are, they and the terrorist Republicans have always been the minority. The Iranian revolution being theological was determined by the USA because the petrochemical industry relies on the raw material from that region. China relies on US markets, and they probably would choose a theocracy because they are easier to control, just like the USA did for Iran (it didn't work, but that is why they did it).
Some fundamental change will happen. But we are still quite a ways out on it.
Comment by TheBlazingFire123 at 24/05/2021 at 13:35 UTC
-2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
No it’s not. The democrats who are in power aren’t very religious and 90% of media (like Hollywood) is made by atheists or Jews. Look at how all those companies turn their logos rainbow during June.
Comment by 515091 at 24/05/2021 at 13:39 UTC
-5 upvotes, 2 direct replies
I feel so sad for those poor women that went from being free to walk around in a bathing suit at the beach to having to cover up or else. My main issue is that people that believe this is how women should be forced to live are able to immigrate to western countries and if we expect them to stop doing this to women we are considered islamaphobic or bigoted. What a disgusting ideology to push on people. Feminists who whine all day long about a white male patriarchy yet conveniently ignore this garbage should be called out. You don't speak for me if you won't speak up for them