https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/11/23/trump-autocrat-elections-00191281
created by caveatlector73 on 24/11/2024 at 01:29 UTC
2547 upvotes, 41 top-level comments (showing 25)
Comment by caveatlector73 at 24/11/2024 at 01:51 UTC
401 upvotes, 7 direct replies
Like Trump, Orban got a second chance at power and was far more prepared the second time. Vance calls Orban an inspiration the United States can learn from. What exactly does Vance believe the US can learn from Orban?
Orban used the populist narrative to:
Pose as the folksy outsider (he's a lawyer and an elite) whether or not he ate the fries he served while pretending to work is unknown; Like Orban Vance, a lawyer who graduated from Yale, claims universities are the enemy; Like Orban both Trump and Vance are anti-immigrant depite their wives being immigrants; Orban's fight against global economics is reflected in Trumps tariffs and a trade war with China. They glorify makers over takers and yet none of them are makers and are finacially wed to takers.
The second part of Orban blueprint deals with political institutions themselves. As the article demonstrates this part of the plan appears to also be in motion.
Comment by HookFE03 at 24/11/2024 at 02:14 UTC
119 upvotes, 11 direct replies
One redeeming quality of Donald Trump is that he’s almost 80
Comment by mrkfn at 24/11/2024 at 01:58 UTC
91 upvotes, 5 direct replies
Good article, but I want more. Trump is not simply a “populist”. Any suggestions for other “how to defeat authoritarian right wing demagogues”? Thanks!
Comment by Firm-Analysis6666 at 24/11/2024 at 02:33 UTC
67 upvotes, 4 direct replies
I think ppl using Hungary as a warning simply ignore the fact that Hungary adopted a new constitution about 10 years ago that enshrines far right christian beliefs.
Comment by weluckyfew at 24/11/2024 at 14:06 UTC
9 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Look at what he's doing to remake the military - they're talking about purging the officer corps and intimidating the rest by threatening pensions, punishing and rewarding with court marshals and assignments (get relocated to Greenland) -- he wants loyalists.
Comment by Marie-Pierre-Guerin at 24/11/2024 at 12:22 UTC
21 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I spent the last 10 years in China as a diplomat. Came home to North America to see the exact same political plays. It’s just so sad.
Comment by District_Wolverine23 at 24/11/2024 at 03:25 UTC
13 upvotes, 3 direct replies
This was a good read. (Can we send this to the DCCC?) However, I take issue with one part of it:
At their core, some of these narratives are centered on racist or nativist ideas, but they are cushioned in several outer layers that are primarily economic — and it’s the economic messages that many who hear them react to.
I'm not so sure of this. There were multiple moments in the campaign where the economic charade was dropped and the mask slipped. The "cushioning" is pretty slim. I would also say that racism in America is like slowly boiling a frog: you can make broad references to racist tropes and people will either enjoy it, or not care. It's comfortable and familiar, so it's not outrageous. It's every day life.
Orban also had these moments where the mask slips and he starts spouting off about "mixed race societies". That's not couched in economic messaging, it's just racism and nativism.
I will concede that degrading people is a tactical error. Calling a spade a spade is not a way to win friends. But it is a sad thing to concede because tolerating those kind of attitudes degrades democracy as well. If you felt you were a sheep amongst wolves would you be happy having a vote on dinner?
Comment by KhorneisBlood at 24/11/2024 at 01:53 UTC
16 upvotes, 3 direct replies
Hopefully people will understand and put in the effort to protect their freedoms.
Comment by Sad-Psychology-4735 at 24/11/2024 at 21:42 UTC
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I believe this is different. Trump won twice. That's what he wanted. Everyone knows he doesn't want the job, he just wanted the win. He said what he had to, he promised what he had to, he played the game and won.
He hates his voter base. He's not going to keep doing things or making promoses for them that do not satisfy his ego.
In the end, Americans are either going to be better off in 2 years, or midterms are going to the dems. Then we'll have 2 years of gridlock as per usual.
And in 4 years, voters will be asked the same question. Are you better off now? The voters that swayed this election are the same voters who have goldfish-like memories.
So, I'm just hunkering down. Let the storm blow over. The only thing I fear is that he chooses to try and change the 2 term limit. That's his only incentive to keep his base frothy.
Comment by Techn028 at 24/11/2024 at 20:04 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
When Trump does of old age and lifestyle his death will martyr him for the regime that will follow. He's not the guy I'm worried about.
Comment by nmnnmmnnnmmm at 24/11/2024 at 21:45 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I think this is a wake up call to get involved in your local community at the very least. Because eventually you do want to know who your police department is.
Comment by SilentDanni at 24/11/2024 at 12:24 UTC
2 upvotes, 2 direct replies
Out of curiosity, for those of you living in the US, how much do you trust your institutions? Do you trust them to uphold your democracy should Trump try anything “funny”? Do you believe your constitution would placate a possible coup attempt?
I’ve been reading the news, and, it seems to me, that Trump is kind of trying to put all the pieces in place to make sure that his tenure as president doesn’t encounter any sort of opposition.
Does the military support him?
Comment by GoatHour8786 at 24/11/2024 at 14:37 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Well, trump promised to unleash the military in the US. I expect his national emergency to be far more than talking about how bad the universities are. You will see tanks and military patrols on campuses and disappearing college students for example. This is a different situation from Hungary. Even trump's supporters will be arrested. trump wants to be a dictator who punishes his own citizens. Look at how badly he treated those in his cabinet. He doesn't care about his voters and will smile when he sees American put into the trucks and hauled away to camps.
Comment by No_Clue_7894 at 24/11/2024 at 15:03 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
That’s preaching to the choir, Orban has cast the root of all evil that makes this craziness possible.
However it cannot be emulated in America.
Orbán inspires GOP authoritarians, but they can’t copy him
The attractions of authoritarianism Not surprisingly, the parallels are there for the taking: a political party that could not achieve a majority of the vote through democratic means (( Orban’s Fidesz only obtained a majority of the vote in the 2022 elections, which were no longer fair)
transforms the institutions of the state to ensure its hold on power. The appeal is obvious to a party (GOP) that is similarly dependent on the disproportionality of electoral procedures and institutions to hold onto power.
End quote
The bottom 90% of the country Trump might have spoken to and swayed them, he will not help them.
So this is not the time to give up. This is the time to use every lever of power to stop the worst of authoritarianism from taking over and to stand behind the people and organizations fighting for our country’s integrity, its principles, and our freedoms.
The universe is constantly evolving, so to keep pace and thrive, individuals must be able to adapt to new circumstances and challenges.
After all, you say the lie a million times, and (then) it’s a fact. That’s what social media has enabled.
There may be tough times ahead, but Maria Resa advises that people should “hold the line” and “stay committed to [their] values.”
Big Tech for the spread of corruption and dishonesty, saying it “insidiously manipulates at the cellular level of democracy.” She cited an MIT study from 2018 that found that social media is designed to spread lies six times faster than truth to keep users scrolling.
“The more you keep scrolling,” she said, “the more revenues come in and the more data they get. They use machine learning to build a model of you that knows you better than you know yourself. Then they micro-target.”
“It’s the same whether it’s Facebook, now called Meta, or Twitter, now called X, or YouTube or Google or search itself. Journalism gets distributed through tech. And if tech puts its thumbs on the scale, not because it wants to elect anybody, but because it wants to make more money, then we have a problem.”
Comment by TerribleJared at 27/11/2024 at 12:59 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Theres one MASSIVE difference between US and Hungary. We have 390 million privately owned firearms and a populace on both sides that are always ready to be seen as a hero. We have a boycott/protest culture on both sides. Im hoping Trumps tries to go too far too soon and flips his base. Its hard to argue while staring down the barrels of a quarter billion firearms.
Comment by rysker6 at 27/11/2024 at 22:38 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Orban is Trumps mentor, he was the speaker at CPAC before as well, many in MAGA (the Republican Party is dead) idolize him as well, he is their blueprint.
Comment by Stevlng_Hello at 24/11/2024 at 11:12 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Just like we watched the World fall Apart over the last 4 years
Comment by [deleted] at 24/11/2024 at 16:12 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I thought there was advice here?
Comment by [deleted] at 26/11/2024 at 06:53 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I trust some institutions, but we'll see how eroded they become over this administration similarly to the SCOTUS. Hopefully some will still hold on to the ideals of the constitution, but that remains to be seen. Since Jan 6th its impossible to trust Trump or his supporters to not attempt to overthrow the most sacred parts of our institutions simply to get their way.
Comment by Useful_Accountant_22 at 26/11/2024 at 23:55 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
That article has solutions that the Democratic party needs to follow, though as it stands, they are not employing the solutions. Sure, some influencers are, but the Democratic party is bending the knee. There is no hope.
Comment by Aggravating_You4411 at 27/11/2024 at 03:08 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I have read this same seemingly logical explaination of trumps win....dont over think it, it was about her skin color and her sex. Bidens policies were all about working class stability and he got hammered for it. The us has never been so wealthy with 4% unemployement. Its about white people losing power.....
Comment by JTuck333 at 27/11/2024 at 11:58 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
2019 was pretty sweet
Comment by LingonberryHot8521 at 27/11/2024 at 23:52 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
So much will hinge on media reach and I have trouble believing that our "liberal billionaires" give enough of a shit.
Comment by BachelorCooking at 28/11/2024 at 16:57 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
We are in a dictatorship. Our democracy is DEAD. Act and speak accordingly.
Comment by TaskForceCausality at 24/11/2024 at 16:21 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
> First, let’s take a breath because there’s a silver lining. Trump’s presidency will be painful for many, but democratic erosion is unlikely to reach Hungarian levels soon. That’s because the U.S. has a more robust political system, *and Democrats and pro-democracy activists have a window to act before lasting institutional damage occurs*.
Ell oh Ell. The wealthy Democratic Party elite leadership *privately supports Trump*. Sure, those limousine liberals will announce publicly it’s all a big crime against democracy, so on and so forth. But in the cozy confines of their penthouses and yachts, they’ll check their portfolios and privately toast to Trump’s centralization & privatization of the government.
They won’t lift a finger to stop matters- and in fact may even help Trump behind the scenes by marginalizing any realistic and organized opposition. Bernie Sanders’ scuttled candidacy is but one example.