https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1hs3pz0/on_reddits_moderation_system_creating_a/
created by liquidpele on 02/01/2025 at 20:35 UTC
62 upvotes, 20 top-level comments (showing 20)
We're all aware that echo chambers happen online, but as seen by the last presidential election just how WRONG everyone was here on reddit, I'd like to point out that one of the biggest problems is reddit's moderation system - where moderations have in recent years taken on a - dare I say - fascist approach to moderation. Anything even remotely close to a controversial opinion results in an immediate permanent ban + muting.
As a case study, I will use myself, a 16 year old account, here since before the digg migration even, being banned by r/comics of all places. I realize how this sounds, I assure you the point isn't to complain about that, but it is what sparked this consideration.
My comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1hrtz87/comment/m50x033/[1][2]
1: https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1hrtz87/comment/m50x033/
2: https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/1hrtz87/comment/m50x033/
There are major issues, yes, but there feel like the comic creator has never tried working with the homeless. They talk up a good story, but you’ll find that for most the story changes every week.
A quick reply to this asking about what rule was broken:
Now, to avoid this sounding like just complaining, on to the meat. This is the third time I've received this exact scenario from a major sub. I've modded major subs in the past under other account names, and have seen this same scenario play out within the mod teams I interacted with as well. It's my assertion that the current mod system has the following major flaws:
1. Mods are NOT given too much power, but lack any oversight themselves - even just self-oversight features. For instance, mod teams are not provided any solid mechanism for handling inter-team disagreements - lacking those features most teams just avoid the time sink of disagreements and let any decisions stand.
2. Reddit mod features actively encourage banning. In the example above, I was muted after a single question. This has become the norm across most subs in my experience, even in those I participated as a mod in. Practices like banning for commenting in a different sub are common, if not outright encouraged by admin silence.
3. No recommendations or additional data is provided to mods. A mod may go look at the account history to try and gain some of this themselves, but it's a long chore and rarely done after the first few dozen times because of the time sink. Data on the age, sub activity, amount of mod-actioned comments, etc would be valuable. An AI driven summary of the user's history including removed/deleted things would be even better.
4. No reddit-provided guidelines for rules, so rules tend to snowball and build up as mods add more and more over the years until they cover every facet of discussion in some way. This makes rules and guidelines subjective and meaningless.
Given the above flaws, users become aware of the limits of expressing themselves. In the early years of reddit, the majority of "harm" to your account was based on negative karma, but this allowed you to, from time to time, spend a little karma to make what could be an unpopular comment. This is no longer the case, and even popular comments can result in full bans if an activist mod disagrees and chooses to interpret your comment as "trolling", "extremist", or whatever generic term for "bad" they choose to use for the rational.
Due to this, many choose to forgo leaving unpopular comments entirely, resulting in a widespread reddit-wide bubble. Subs like r/conservative or r/TwoXChromosomes are often criticized for their use of bans for censorship, but from another perspective these are "safe places" to have discussions on things that real people in the real world believe which would otherwise get people banned elsewhere.
What does this lead to? Let's take the recent election as an example. Reddit, across the board, was churning with enthusiasm with how bad Trump would lose. I'll take a moment here to say that I voted for Kamala, and I myself was surprised at how badly Democrats lost - leading me to realize the bubble I'd gotten myself into. This recent ban then made me consider a contribution to the bubble which I hadn't considered before, and how many times I'd avoided making comments critical of a person of policy for fear that I'd step over some line in the sand I couldn't see.
To finish this post, I'll give a concrete example. This is a topic that will get you almost certainly banned in almost every major sub. Disagreeing with a topic related to transgender persons. You all just winced, because you fear where this is going - however, I personally support trans rights, but why should I need to make that statement to justify myself and proclaim I'm on the "right side" of the topic before even making a statement on it, in the same way I have to constantly say I voted for Kamala before making a fairly moderate political statement. This is the bubble that poorly thought out moderation has created.
Comment by transemacabre at 03/01/2025 at 00:16 UTC
34 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I got my comment removed by a mod for “using a slur” when I referred to a chemical regarding plant growth.
Another time, I made a post about affordable housing. The housing complex has the name of an actual person (think like Ronald McDonald House) and my post was removed for “doxxing” someone’s personal address. I appealed: nothing. No response.
I was banned from the TwoX sub years ago for recommending an OP seek help over an abusive relationship. What’s wild is the OP was positive in response to what I said. A mod banned me with a nasty comment. No wonder that sub is so bland.
Comment by Kijafa at 02/01/2025 at 21:52 UTC
43 upvotes, 1 direct replies
The issue is (when you use volunteer moderators) that moderation duties inevitably falls to the people who moderate the most. This may be something of a tautology, that the mods with the most free time will be those who spend the most time moderating, but I think it self-selects for people who are the "most online" ideologically.
Extremely-online ideologies (across the political spectrum) tend to be driven by what gets the most engagement, namely righteous indignation. And righteous indignation rarely wants to hear any dissent, even good-faith discussion. The battle lines get drawn, and if you do not accept the tenets of the ideology whole then you are the enemy and there is a moral imperative to silence you.
It also ends up with extreme echo chambers, as the people who are the most-online are often also the most out of touch with reality on the ground, which is where the vast majority of people actually live. I don't think this is due to the reasons you listed, I think it's just an inherent facet of volunteer moderation.
It gets worse as the size of the subreddit get bigger. I used to moderate a couple subs that grew from nothing to 7-figure user numbers and the reality of what moderation entailed completely changed over that course of that growth. It gets more and more difficult to avoid the siege mentality as the number of people trying to intentionally make your life difficult grows exponentially. So while I don't agree with how mods handle things a lot of the times in big subs, I understand and sympathize.
That said, there's also the issue of powermods (which I used to be one of as well). There is not a way to effectively moderate multiple million+ user subreddits well. It is not something that can be done to a good standard, even if you dedicate your whole life to it (which some powermods apparently do). So I think a concrete step that could be taken would be to limit how many giant subreddits a single user can moderate. I don't know what that limit should be set at, but I think it should exist and I think it would go a long way to improving moderation on the site.
Comment by socoyankee at 03/01/2025 at 16:38 UTC
10 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I got banned from a sub because of other subs I comment in
Comment by mickaelbneron at 03/01/2025 at 05:41 UTC
13 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I've been perma banned from a few subs for absurd reasons. I just think mods are not normal people. Sorry OP but I've been shown again and again that's true and I'm fed up with Reddit's moderation system. I think mods should just have much less power.
Comment by stemfish at 02/01/2025 at 20:57 UTC
30 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I don't disagree with you on every issue, but there's two major issues I have with your position.
1. Have you really ever been a moderator for a large subreddit? From my experience, if you don't have a 0 tolerance policy and stick to it, you're going to end up in endless discussions and debates about what really is hate speech. I've had users try to appeal using the N-word and other racial slurs as "jokes" and "not that bad". And I've only been a moderator for subs in the 10s/low 100s of thousands of subscribers. Banning is a way to solve the problem, since it skips all of the middle steps and appeals that take time from the mods. I'm not surprised the moderators went hard on that thread, they moderate comics, not a political sub. If you've been a mod for large subreddits in the last year, I'm jealous you haven't been forced to go the ban route.
2. Conservative and similar subreddits are not a safe places to have a discussion. The moderators there are insanely active, reviewing every post and most comments. They manually approve users. Once in, they have a 0-strike policy where if you cross a moderator, you're out, and you have no recourse. Within the site those are the most heavily moderated places, much moreso than the exact issue you claim to have with comics.
Reddit has a problem with overzealous moderators, but that's what you get when mods are unpaid, and anyone can set up their own subreddit. If you disagree with how the moderators at comics are acting, nothing stops you from setting up your own subreddit and curate a different moderation culture. I wish you luck if you go that route.
There should be some way for more oversight from the admins, but the answer they'll give back is that you can start your own sub. I hate that's the answer, but it's the one they've always given and the one they'll always stay with.
Comment by dt7cv at 03/01/2025 at 02:37 UTC
10 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Bans are jarring.
I say this as a mod who issued like 5000 bans and got 3000 people suspended.
For a long time there was a determined group of people on Reddit who would use underhanded tactics to violate Policy and or rules or who would just participate in very bad faith. They would keep recycling accounts to do the same thing.
Moderators have limited time and desire to litigate these things too deeply and there are better things to do with our time
Comment by slumplus at 06/01/2025 at 10:22 UTC
4 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Comics is maybe one of the worst subs and makes me believe in the dead internet theory. It seems like every post that gets 50k+ upvotes is either the most unfunny comic that makes family circus look like peak comedy (see pizzacake), the setup for a porn panel available for $2.99 on patreon, or the least inspired “we live in a society” statement ever.
Comment by argumentativepigeon at 10/01/2025 at 10:38 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Lmao bro acted like you did an isis beheading video
Comment by El3ktroHexe at 03/01/2025 at 00:56 UTC*
5 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I was banned from a sub without any 'real' reason. None of my very few comments in that sub was deleted and after I asked friendly why they banned me, I never got an answer.
So yeah, the mod system is broken. But nothing will change this. They don't get paid for their work and for every asshole, there is probably also a good mod out there (I hope so!) :)
EDIT about the last part you wrote, yeah, probably that was the reason for my ban. I played Hogwarts Legacy and that sub hates this game (because the game is obviously transphob and every person that played this game too). Could be possible that they used a bot to check my comment history...
Comment by zeek413 at 04/01/2025 at 07:46 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I got banned on one channel for doing a give away. And every time I asked to be unbanned they would mute me. And after banning me they put on there site that give aways weren't allowed. R re edit did nothing when I filed a complaint either. #rogally <-- reddit
Comment by sensiblybroccoli at 05/01/2025 at 13:28 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The problem persists all the way up the chain to the admin team. They will be heavily biased if you report people.
Comment by Broad_External7605 at 06/01/2025 at 19:16 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I totally agree. I've been kicked off many subs for mildly controversial comments that I felt needed to be said. Us Centrists are probably the most hated people on reddit.
Comment by Zakkeh at 03/01/2025 at 16:45 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
There's a big difference between an unpopular opinion and a hateful comment.
I think your example is interesting - here is a comic exploring the paradox of being homeless.
You've commented that most homeless people don't deserve some care, and are in fact just lying.
This isn't the place to discuss this - if you want to, you should find a comic that brings that viewpoint, or better yet, create some content.
If there's a post about how dogs are the best pets, and you come in and say dogs suck, sure. It's on topic. But it's probably not appropriate.
This isn't about an echo chamber. This is about conversation skills. Just because someone is talking about homeless people doesn't mean you need to chime in with your shitty take. It means you should find a similar story of yours, or to empathise with the point OP is making.
If you make a comic about how awful homeless people are, and it gets zero upvotes, you know that there isn't anyone who wants to engage with your idea. You're not being censored, you're just not being likable.
Comment by yeah_youbet at 03/01/2025 at 11:34 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I'm getting sick and tired of this subreddit being used as a whine-box every time someone loses an internet argument or has a negative interaction with a moderator.
Comment by got-trunks at 04/01/2025 at 03:31 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I have read your post but I think it falls in a narrow bounds. We have site rules which encompass everything, and then we have sub rules which are come-as-you-are.
I don't know where you lurk, but no expression is particularly looked at outside of some hardware decisions in mine. Ex. AMD vs. Intel etc. You can always find a hill to shout upon here. How does moderation have anything to do with it? It's a community. What you seem to suggest is that there be an overarching ideal behind Reddit.
That is probably absurd.
Comment by Ill-Team-3491 at 04/01/2025 at 18:35 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The whole point of the right wing culture war is for people to miss the forest for the trees. Everyone is divided up into factions. Trying to win pointless skirmishes that serve to amplify the negative feedback loop.
I swear people have legitimate PTSD where they'll reflexively fight any reply. As you said you have to preface your posts with "I'm on your side".
Comment by mdi125 at 14/01/2025 at 22:32 UTC*
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Yeah nothing new. I've used reddit on and off for years and gone through multiple accounts. Moderation is terrible on this site and particularly reddit mods are terminally online weirdos, at least most of them. I moderated old gaming forums (Playdota Reborn and official HoN forums) and the mod and global mods were not as socially inept as your typical reddit mod whom seem to be 10x more trigger happy with bans. Bonus points if they have some sort of strange entitlement like "you get what you paid for (free moderation)."
But in a way it's a blessing that reddit is kind of a containment zone for reddit mods to be more online than be offline.
Comment by neuroticsmurf at 02/01/2025 at 20:54 UTC
-3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
If you've gotten banned across several subreddits, that's probably a you issue.
And to extrapolate from the election results some kind of tenuous relationship to your banning and Reddit moderation, in general, is pretty out there.
Comment by lisajeanius at 03/01/2025 at 20:17 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
The mods are unseen with veto control because they are here to cause chaos and divide. They are an unnecessary position as Admin are paid employees who accomplish the same thing. The mods are a 'contract' sort of position.
They are allowed to run amuck as they are not paid anyway.
Comment by stabbinU at 04/01/2025 at 06:03 UTC
0 upvotes, 0 direct replies
nah
