https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1gkid7g/the_psychology_of_downvoting/
created by hawkingswheelchair1 on 05/11/2024 at 21:49 UTC*
22 upvotes, 12 top-level comments (showing 12)
These are some thoughts I had about Reddit's downvoting structure, especially seeing how the energy of Youtube, Instagram and Facebook seem to have shifted since they each did versions of limiting downvoting ability on comments and posts. This obviously is just an opinion, and it seems others have referenced this in past posts here but I wanted to put it into words from my own perspective.
It seems that the interface of Reddit, and in particular the downvoting ability, is designed to create echo chambers that impede authentic honest dialogue.
The reason the site permits this is because it generates more traffic and is more profitable. Living in an echo chamber is generally more pleasing, at least for people not consciously thinking about how the internet is a feedback loop.
If part of Reddit's aim can be said to foster open constructive dialogue, then this certainly hurts that goal because it so heavily disincentivizes dissent. This is especially dangerous as often times the most popular opinion is based on timing, not validity.
This is not Reddit's fault. As a corporation, Advance Publications' (Reddit’s parent company) first duty is to its shareholders. It legally cannot change the design until traffic (ie. advertising) or brand value are impacted, presumably by users getting tired of the negativity and choosing alternative discussion forums. Presumably thats what happened on some level at the other sites I mentioned.
Similar to McDonalds using the pandemic as an excuse to remove salads from its menu, Reddit is not obligated to have the most healthy discussion forum. In fact, if productive healthy dialogue reduces traffic, Reddit is obligated to prevent that from happening.
The website is legally bound to choose the interface that is the most addictive.
Comment by macacolouco at 06/11/2024 at 10:42 UTC
8 upvotes, 3 direct replies
The downvote is a "disagree" button and also a "fuck you" button. However, your post is very unoriginal and basic. It doesn't add to the debate. It only rehashes well known criticism and tired buzzwords such as "echo chamber". So it is very natural for it to be downvoted although I didn't do that myself.
Comment by probable_chatbot6969 at 05/11/2024 at 22:44 UTC
6 upvotes, 0 direct replies
i would like to point out that the function of downvotes have effectively changed. and that they didn't use to make echo chambers as intensely. people did use to sort by controversial, sometimes. but people did also use to try and downvote farm before negative karma score and upstanding bans could affect your ability to use the site.
the moderation changes that they put in place to reduce fighting, curb political violence, and make the site advertising friendly have actually turned everyone into moderators instead of just participants, in a way.
and you're on to something. reddit to me is proof that money and private interest will always destroy discourse. and not just in a "waaaahhh i can't say the nword anymore" way.
the site has to be commercially viable to exist on a capitalist internet. so it has to buy the support of investors who don't want their IP associated with a site where people get in flame wars or where footage of a active shooter's gopro gets posted. so moderation has to be in an arms race against ever more cryptic attempts at self expression (and cryptic online expressions of violence). so even the default method of sorting content gets turned into a method of moderation.
just saying this because what you brought up, i used to love the function of downvotes. i was one of the people who sometimes sorted by controversial. sometimes, i would spark a flame war on a newlymade thread because i loved to see people express negative emotions without inhibitions. downvotes weren't a reflection of your character or your danger to the image of the site, they were just a method of ranking and sorting interactions.
Comment by 17291 at 05/11/2024 at 22:16 UTC
4 upvotes, 1 direct replies
This is not Reddit's fault. As a corporation, Advance Publications' (Reddit’s parent company) first duty is to its shareholders. It legally cannot change the design until traffic (ie. advertising) or brand value are impacted, presumably by users getting tired of the negativity and choosing alternative discussion forums...The website is legally bound to choose the interface that is the most addictive.
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that's true[1].
Comment by brtzca_123 at 07/11/2024 at 18:53 UTC
2 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Thanks for your post.
I'd add to this that social media sites tend to have their own culture, of a sort, and I think downvoting and how it's viewed is very much part of Reddit culture. Correct me if I am wrong (anyone), but downvoting in its original intent was for discouraging insults, immature behavior, off-topic or irrelevant posts that did not further the discussion, etc. This relates to the term "karma"--in other words to deserve a downvote you are doing something "holistically bad" or harmful to the community as a whole, and the downvoter is not merely expressing disagreement (or, worse, perhaps being "insulting" via the downvote button itself).
My (brief) experiences on Reddit suggest the culture supports a much wider use of the downvote than the word "karma" suggests, and in fact if someone even slightly disagrees with you, or has found a few words in your post "out of alignment" with theirs, then it's commonly accepted this is a reason for a downvote (among many others). When downvotes in turn affect a post's visibility and number of reads, that can be very disincentivizing for people to put much thought into what they're posting, unless it happens to agree with the sentiment and vibe of surrounding posts.
Ultimately, I think there's a kind of tragedy of the commons effect going on. As you suggested, Reddit Co's motives don't necessarily align with what is most valuable to the end user / posters. And what people don't pay to use risks becoming worthless.
Comment by PissYourselfNow at 05/11/2024 at 22:13 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Just like it's McDonalds's natural and legal obligation to choose the most addictive food for the price.
Because our political process is not good enough to quickly implement new laws in the interest of our public health, we have to be conscientious and take action on an individual level.
Just like you shouldn't eat a lot of junk food or drink a lot of alcohol, you also shouldn't browse and participate in lazy Reddit consumption.
Comment by [deleted] at 07/11/2024 at 12:03 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
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Comment by [deleted] at 07/11/2024 at 12:06 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
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Comment by [deleted] at 07/11/2024 at 12:10 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
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Comment by monkey_squid1 at 09/11/2024 at 22:39 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Iv never understood dowmvotes and why Redditors are obsessed with it. I made a joke comment and got several downvoted. I come back with a follow up comment saying “get a fucking sense of humor Reddit” and that got 10+ updates. By all logic they should have both been downvoted
Comment by [deleted] at 12/11/2024 at 02:39 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
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Comment by genericusername1904 at 12/11/2024 at 22:21 UTC*
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Youtube was well-ahead of figuring out the toxicity of enabling the down-voters to kill any/all content creation which turned their platform to mush, even though it pains me to have to say something nice about Youtube they did actually get this right. e.g. nobody cares what someone who 'down-votes' has to say and it's not right that a useless eater gets to gang up and make other people appear 'unpopular'.
main issue is 1) chilling effect, nobody wants to 'be unpopular' so no real discussion will occur with the threat hanging over them, 2) better people leave or never join due to this; worst people who only join to do this are in the majority, 3) anything slightly 'interesting' is polarized to neutrality; 1 up vote and 1 down vote cancelling themselves out, over and over lol to no purpose at all that the thing looks "unread, unliked, unhated" to anybody new - i counted 40 ups and downs on a thing i wrote once.
this place (reddit) is by far historically the worst platform to have ever been invented, with the worst psychology. but stuff you write will appear on googlesearches and unlike 4chan neo-nazi trolls can be followed up on by you, as the anonymity is slightly harder for them to hide in.
Comment by SchmeedsMcSchmeeds at 21/11/2024 at 09:25 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Totally agree with you. Reddit’s business model is all about keeping us engaged and spending more time on the site. So, features like the downvote button end up being tools to boost engagement rather than promote open and genuine conversations.
Same thing with Google. Their algorithms focus on maximizing ad revenue, which often means pushing content that grabs attention over stuff that’s accurate or constructive. Just like Reddit can create echo chambers, Google’s search results and YouTube recommendations have been criticized for making filter bubbles or amplifying certain narratives while overlooking diverse perspectives.
It’s unfortunate, but the most visible and popular opinions often get there because of timing or emotional appeal, not necessarily because they’re the most valid. This might drive engagement in the short term, but it undermines the platform’s potential for meaningful dialogue.
At the end of the day, it’s a systemic issue because these platforms are businesses. They’re legally obligated to prioritize profits for shareholders, which incentivizes designs that maximize engagement—even if it comes at the cost of healthy discourse. Like you mentioned with McDonald’s, these companies aren’t required to prioritize what’s “healthiest” for users; they’re focused on what’s most profitable.
It’s ironic that your post got downvoted—perfect example of the problem you’re talking about. It shows how dissent and critical thinking often get buried, making it harder to have the discussions we need to actually have to address the systemic issues.
All that said, Reddit will unfortunately eventually fall to the festering pits of hell along with AOL, Myspace and the Space Jam website.