https://www.reddit.com/r/SeriousConversation/comments/1h4vlwz/guns_and_protection/
created by Conscious-Quarter173 on 02/12/2024 at 14:01 UTC*
17 upvotes, 64 top-level comments (showing 25)
I have owned guns, my entire life, mainly for hunting. I have been pondering lately, so many people keep guns for protection. In my entire life I have never had a situation where a wish I had a gun for protection. Even in the woods(mid west)
Have you ever really “needed “ a gun? and for people who carry all of the time Have you ever had a moment where you were so happy you did have your gun at your side. Where you had to use it? And is there anything else that you would carry 365 days a year that you only carry just in case?
It seems like we have become a nation of fear. We have convinced so many people they need to carry a gun for protection.
What are your thoughts?
Edit: I do live in a small enough town. That violence is not a problem. Neither is home invasion or road rage. But I enjoy reading other perspectives, I can only see the world through my own eyes Thank you for allowing me the glimpse into other people‘s views
I noticed a lot of people carry guns just in case I wonder how many of these people carry a first aid kit just in case (yes I do). I’ve never needed it. Other than maybe a Band-Aid here or there.
Comment by AutoModerator at 02/12/2024 at 14:01 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
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Comment by mommasboy76 at 02/12/2024 at 15:59 UTC
14 upvotes, 3 direct replies
I grew up in with guns for both hunting and protection. It’s almost a religion in the Midwest U.S. I don’t believe guns kill people. People kill people. HOWEVER, we’ve had an increasing lack of respect for life and willingness to commit violence in our country. Sometimes when things heat up, we have to look for solutions to cool things down. If a guy points a gun at someone, our first response shouldn’t be to give the other person a gun so that they can defend themselves. Our first response should be to try to talk the original guy into dropping his gun. There’s a reason why a lot of Old West towns outlawed guns in town: when things get heated, people are more likely to use them. That’s why I’m not against reasonable gun laws or even gun bans. I recognize that guns are not the problem, but at the same time if you want less deaths then less guns can only help. People argue for places like Switzerland where gun ownership is high while gun deaths are low. That’s obviously not the case here (although it used to be). People say if you outlaw guns, criminals will still have them. I could point out England where guns are basically outlawed and show you a minuscule amount of gun deaths. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. If we’re not willing to recognize the gravity of the situation, we’ll never be able to make the sacrifices necessary for a more peaceful society.
Comment by Jack_Myload at 02/12/2024 at 14:19 UTC*
12 upvotes, 4 direct replies
I carry a flashlight and a multi-tool wherever I go. Does that make me scared of the dark and mechanical mishaps? Those things are just tools that are carried in the event that they’re needed, the same as a firearm is.
Why do you see being prepared as equal to being fearful? That’s the real question here.
Comment by 6PunkMonk6 at 02/12/2024 at 15:50 UTC
5 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I’ve had guns that I used for hunting. Then I stopped hunting. Then I got rid of the guns. Then I brought more guns thinking that I needed them but never needed them. I also bought mace and thankfully never needed it.
Comment by Mysterious_Main_5391 at 02/12/2024 at 17:04 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
It's like a parachute. No one ever wants to "need" one, but if your ever do, you better have it.
Comment by Conscious-Quarter173 at 02/12/2024 at 14:51 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I agree, you have to weigh the odds Which is pretty much with anything Even having car insurance, life insurance You have it and hope to never need it
And the more I think about this, humans are a weird species.
Comment by bossoline at 02/12/2024 at 16:28 UTC
3 upvotes, 0 direct replies
If you think that we have "become" nation of fear, then you don't know history. Henry Anslinger ran an entire campaign convincing America and Congress that if we didn't make cannabis illegal, Blacks and Mexicans would get high and rape all the white women. After 9/11 we prosecuted an entire decades long war and gave away all of our privacy out of fear. Look up how we handled the Chinese opium dens in SF. We have always been a nation of fear...it's probably less now than it's ever been.
I am a long time martial artist and self defense instructor. I carry a firearm every day, not because I'm afraid, but because it's the best tool for the job. It's a considered decision based on my personal study of violence and knowledge of myself and my own situation.
I think your oversimplifying things with the "how many people actually need it?" argument. I also have life insurance although I'm not likely to need it. Most people go their whole lives never having a seat belt save their life, but they still wear one. Why? Because in their assessment the potential consequences of not doing so is more important than the numerical risk.
Comment by Odd_Combination8290 at 02/12/2024 at 15:03 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
What's the saying? ” Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it”
Comment by No_Courage1519 at 02/12/2024 at 15:34 UTC
3 upvotes, 1 direct replies
Some guy pulled a knife on me outside a Safeway in WA, I drew on him and he ran away. Validated my CC. Shit is scary man
Comment by RamblingBrambles at 02/12/2024 at 21:17 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I also grew up hunting, and gun safety was drilled into me from a very young age. My mother also used to work as a dispatcher, so I was made aware of some realities rather young.
I live in a constitutional carry state, and I keep a firearm on me not because I feel unsafe but because I know anything can happen. I've had two instances where I had to draw my gun, though fortunately, I never had to use it. Once during a moose encounter, and again during an encounter with a strung out individual in the woods.
I just prefer to be prepared.
Comment by largos7289 at 02/12/2024 at 14:17 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
You know i thought the same thing. My buddy that lives in a town that the houses are pretty far apart. He would purposely have to go to the neighbors house kinda separated. So one day he goes home early from work i think he said it was 2-3pm. Pulls into his driveway, opens the garage door to go into the house like he usually does and leaves it open. He came in took his gun out and put it in his holster at the hip, i always asked why? what are you afraid of the toaster? So anyway he was doing some yard work and had the back door open in the garage as well to go back and forth. He's in the kitchen eating a sandwich and some guy just walks in his house. They both look at each other for a second, he goes to pull on him and the guy runs. Dude WTF!?! might have been a different scenario if he didn't have that gun.
Comment by Disposable-Account7 at 02/12/2024 at 16:07 UTC
2 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I've had to use my gun in self defense three times in my life, twice on the same guy, thankfully none of those scenarios ended in me shooting anyone but had I not had my gun I think there is a good chance I'd be dead.
The first two were with my abusive dad, the first time he got drunk, stole her car keys so she couldn't go to work and took off in his truck. We found him still drinking in his truck parked by the river, fought with him to get the keys back and eventually called the cops to have them come get them. He threatened to drive off again and hide if the cops were coming and was telling my brother and I all about how he was going to get that bitch (our mother) fired. When he went to drive off I clocked him in the jaw through the window hoping to knock him out and take the keys out of his pocket which is where he had them. It didn't knock him out and instead he threw the truck into reverse, sped backwards then stopped, aimed at me and came flying at me trying to run me over with the truck. I got out of the way and drew my weapon then charged the vehicle as he was backing up to make another go at me and got my gun aimed at him. He finally surrendered the keys but the cops never showed.
The second time I came over for a surprise visit with my wife and apparently my parents had gotten into some argument and dad was drunk so I came in and he was on top of my mother beating the crap out of her. I threw him off of her and told my wife to get my mother in the car and call the cops. My dad went upstairs to his closet and came back down with a gun screaming through the house about how he was going to kill my mother and wife and then kill me, thankfully all his yelling made it easy for me to sneak up on him and put my gun to the back of his head which got him to drop his gun which I kept, once again Police never bothered to show.
The last time was when a guy tried to break into my house, we lived next to a drug dealer for a while in one of those communities where you can tell a developer just put up a bunch of cookie cutter houses one next to the other that were all the same design to make it easy and quick. So our houses were close and had similar appearance, more than once one of his customers had tried to enter my house, usually the dog barking and lights coming on saw them scurry away but this guy was determined. My dog was barking but he was pounding on my door already had pushed through my porch door and was now trying to get into the foyer. I started yelling for him to back off but he was high out of his mind and wasn't listening as he begged me to let him in and kept trying the doorknob and pounding the door to get it to give way. My wife came down the stairs saying she'd called the cops and that freaked him out and he began throwing his whole body weight into the door on the side with the knob trying to break through. I'm not a small guy but this dude was massive, he had nine inches on me easy and I didn't know if I could stop him if he got his hands on me or my wife and that door was heaving with each hit, he'd get through in a matter of a couple more hits I was sure. So I yelled for my wife to cover her ears and raised my gun to shoot, thankfully less then a second before I was about to kill this guy he saw the gun coming up and hit the deck. He muttered something about being in the wrong house apologized and crawled out my porch door he'd already broken through before taking off down the street.
Because of these events I always have my gun and keep one at home for my family just in case, I look at it like carrying my driver's license everywhere. Even if I don't plan on driving, it's always a good idea to have it with you incase you need it. Had I not been armed any of those times I really think it would have ended with me getting run over, shot, or who knows what.
Comment by Designer_Ad_4760 at 02/12/2024 at 16:27 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Idk bro. Kind of a stupid thought process to think because something hasn't happened, it never will.
Comment by The_White_Ram at 03/12/2024 at 10:47 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
It's very important to understand that the courts have ruled multiple times that police/government do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to specific citizens. By law your own safety, security and protection in the US are 100% up to you. The police have as much legal obligation to protect you as a pizza delivery driver. Couple this with the fact that in reality the police don't have a realistic or accountable professional duty to protect you either and you come to the realization that if you are ever in danger you are completely on your own..
The courts have ruled 4 times that the police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to specific citizens. Your safety, security and protection in the US are 100% up to you. (Warren v. District of Columbia, Castle Rock v. Gonzales, Lozito v. New York City, DeShaney v. Winnebago County)
In Lozito v. New York for instance; Maksim Gelham was on a 28 hour killing spree where 4 people were killed and 5 others were wounded. Gelman started attacking Joseph Lozito with a knife and literally stabbed him in the face. Two police officers who were LITERALLY ASSIGNED TO FIND GELHAM saw this happening and then WENT AND HID behind the locked door in the subway conductor car. They came out of hiding AFTER Lozito had disarmed Gelman and pinned him to the ground.
Lozito tried suing the officers for their failure to intervene and the lawsuit was dismissed because they argued successfully the police have no "special duty to protect" Lozito or anyone else.
The situation was also highlighted perfectly in Uvalde. The cops have no legal obligation to protect children from being shot but have the authority to stop parents from trying to save their kids. In my opinion those two things are mutually exclusive and must be sorted out before an argument can be made that a blanket ban is the best course.
It is also indicated in the Special Relationship Doctrine. The SRP is a legal principle that makes the state liable for the harm inflicted on the individual by a third party provided that the state has assumed control over the individual which is sufficient to trigger an affirmative duty to provide protection to that individual. This shows that the governments default position is to NOT provide a duty to protect individuals UNLESS they take you into custody. If you are NOT in custody you are owed no protections from the government.
Comment by ChunkThundersteel at 02/12/2024 at 15:35 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Insurance. I have never been in a car accident but I have insurance. Should I cancel my insurance because I have never used it before?
Comment by UnicornCalmerDowner at 02/12/2024 at 15:59 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Two times that made me feel like I wished I had a gun on me, even if only briefly:
had a boyfriend get real pissed and start to get physically aggressive with me.
Driving on the highway in the nearby big city when a dude in his car waved a gun at me from the lane next to me.
Comment by SilentIndication3095 at 02/12/2024 at 14:38 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
One time a neighbor's dog escaped and got his chain all tangled in the trees on our property. You bet we brought a gun along to handle this furious animal until we figured out what had happened. I also know people who carry because they work deep in bear country.
That said, you might want to look up statistics for your demographic and area for gun safety. Some groups track and publish numbers of times "a good guy with a gun" has prevented or ended a problem. Some groups track and publish things like suicide rates, accident rates, or getting overpowered and shot by your own weapon. It's not straightforward whether owning a gun makes you and your family safer, so do your own math.
Comment by ElAwesomeo0812 at 02/12/2024 at 14:49 UTC
1 upvotes, 1 direct replies
I have my carry permit and carry almost every day. I have always owned guns but didn't carry. I never felt the need to. One day I was out at a bar with a group of friends. We were walking back to where we were staying when a van crept by us. You could see the occupants turning their heads to stare at us. They proceeded to turn the corner and you could hear the van start to turn around. We were close enough to where we were staying that we made it inside before they turned around but we watched them stop and look for us out the window. After that I got my carry permit because that was without a doubt the most terrifying moment of my life.
I have no problem with people who choose not to exercise that freedom. That is their right. It's just something I do to make me feel comfortable and to protect myself and my family. I conceal carry because I don't like to draw attention to myself. In my opinion open carry is asking for trouble and makes people uncomfortable. Again not hating on those that do though that's their right. I also don't sit around dreaming of having to use it or being some kind of hero. It's honestly something I pray I never have to use but I want to have it if I need it. At this point it's part of my morning routine. I grab my keys, phone, wallet, and pocket knife and slip my gun down in my pocket and say a little prayer that I don't have to use it today. For me it's not different that someone who keeps pepper spray on their keychain.
Comment by frauleinsteve at 02/12/2024 at 17:14 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
When the BLM riots were destroying businesses here in Los Angeles, and a building got burned down less than a mile from my house, I was very happy to have a couple guns and lots of ammo.
Comment by Layer7Admin at 02/12/2024 at 19:13 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I had a person kick in my front door while my wife and I were asleep in bed. I got my AR15 and when he saw me he ran off. Perhaps he 'only' wanted to rob me, perhaps he wanted more. But because I had that gun I didn't have to find out.
Comment by bones_bones1 at 02/12/2024 at 19:24 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I’ve been carrying a gun for almost 30 years. I have needed it 3 times. I also carry a fire extinguisher with me that I’ve only needed once. I wear a seatbelt that I’ve only needed once. These are low probability, high consequence situations.
Comment by contrarian1970 at 02/12/2024 at 20:17 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Back in the late 1980's a man was raking leaves in my neighborhood for money. He found a way into our house that weekend and if my brother had not had a twelve guage in his bedroom with that unmistakable sound, the man very well might have escalated instead of running out the front door. This was a town of 8,000 people and a county of 30,000 at the time. Like I said, it was one of the least burglarized streets inside the city limits with all middle aged neighbors who knew each other.
Comment by Confident_Egg_5174 at 02/12/2024 at 20:37 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
Be thankful you live an area where you don’t feel the need to carry, some of us don’t live in such places. There’s weekly murders where I live, trafficking and home break ins. I carry, I wish I didn’t have to but I feel the need to. I take all the precautions I can to avoid having to use it and so far that has worked. I dread the day I may need to use.
Comment by VendaGoat at 02/12/2024 at 20:58 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I carried concealed for over ten years. I never once had the need to pull. Mitigated many times with common sense and deescalation.
The number of times that I thought that I may actually need to pull are 5 or less.
Comment by Creative-Nebula-6145 at 02/12/2024 at 21:51 UTC
1 upvotes, 0 direct replies
I carry most days. I'm fortunate that I've never encountered a situation where I felt like drawing was necessary, but I can certainly think of some that are possible. If one carries their whole life and never has to draw, I would not say carrying was pointless. It's comparable to always wearing your seat belt but never getting into an accident. One does so just in case.