⚡ Lightning Network Megathread ⚡

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7pwna9/lightning_network_megathread/

created by codedaway on 12/01/2018 at 13:44 UTC*

1370 upvotes, 81 top-level comments (showing 25)

^Last ^updated ^2018-01-29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

⚡What is the Lightning Network? ⚡

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Explanations:

Image Explanations:

payment channels](https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/lightning-part-1-payment-channels-v2.png[15])

1: http://www.lightning.network/

2: http://lightning.engineering/

3: https://medium.com/@AudunGulbrands1/lightning-faq-67bd2b957d70

4: https://medium.com/@rusty_lightning/bitcoin-lightning-things-to-know-e5ea8d84369f

5: https://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=450

6: https://masteringbitcoin.neocities.org/#lightning_network

7: https://coincenter.org/entry/what-is-the-lightning-network

8: https://blog.bitmex.com/the-lightning-network/

9: https://i.imgur.com/L10n4ET.png

10: https://twitter.com/patestevao/status/953756248553525248

11: https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/what-is-a-multisig-wallet.png

12: https://twitter.com/patestevao/status/953756248553525248

13: https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/what-are-the-bitcoin-timelocks.png

14: https://twitter.com/patestevao/status/953756248553525248

15: https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/lightning-part-1-payment-channels-v2.png

shaping the network](https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/lightning-part-2-shaping-the-network.png[17])

16: https://twitter.com/patestevao/status/953756248553525248

17: https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/lightning-part-2-shaping-the-network.png

going off chain](https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/lightning-part-3-going-offchain.png[19])

18: https://twitter.com/patestevao/status/953756248553525248

19: https://s3.amazonaws.com/bitcoindesigned-prod/media/lightning-part-3-going-offchain.png

Specifications / White Papers

Channel Networks](https://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/a20a865ce40d40c8f942cf206a7cba96/Scalable_Funding_Of_Blockchain_Micropayment_Networks%20%5C(1%5C).pdf[25])

20: https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf

21: https://lightning.network/lightning-network-summary.pdf

22: https://lightning.network/lightning-network-technical-summary.pdf

23: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc

24: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/doc/deployable-lightning.pdf

25: https://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/a20a865ce40d40c8f942cf206a7cba96/Scalable_Funding_Of_Blockchain_Micropayment_Networks%20%5C(1%5C).pdf

Videos

Lightning Network Experts on Reddit

Lightning Network Experts on Twitter

Medium Posts

Learning Resources

Books

Desktop Interfaces

Web Interfaces

Tutorials and resources

Lightning on Testnet

Lightning Wallets

Place a testnet transaction

Altcoin Trading using Lightning

Lightning on Mainnet

26: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrr_zPmEiME

27: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpfvhiqFw7A

28: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhpg_8D2FPI

29: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a73Gz3Tvx3k

30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPnO9ExJ50A

31: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_szGaaPPFk

32: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zVzw912wPo

33: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF_ZQ_eijPs

34: https://youtu.be/ndcfBfE_yoY

35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIhAmTqXhZQ

36: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PcR4HWJnkY

37: https://www.reddit.com/user/starkbot

38: https://www.reddit.com/user/roasbeef

39: https://www.reddit.com/user/stile65

40: https://www.reddit.com/user/cfromknecht

41: https://www.reddit.com/user/RustyReddit

42: https://www.reddit.com/user/cdecker

43: https://www.reddit.com/user/Dryja

44: https://www.reddit.com/user/josephpoon

45: https://www.reddit.com/user/fdrn

46: https://www.reddit.com/user/pmpadiou

47: https://twitter.com/starkness

48: https://twitter.com/roasbeef

49: https://twitter.com/stile65

50: https://twitter.com/bitconner

51: https://twitter.com/johanth

52: https://twitter.com/bvu

53: https://twitter.com/rusty_twit

54: https://twitter.com/Snyke

55: https://twitter.com/JackMallers

56: https://twitter.com/tdryja

57: https://twitter.com/jcp

58: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth

59: https://medium.com/@lightning_network

60: https://medium.com/lightning-resources

61: https://medium.com/@AudunGulbrands1/lightning-faq-67bd2b957d70

62: https://medium.com/@ACINQ/releasing-our-lightning-network-explorer-93e87de150bb

63: https://medium.com/@argongroup/bitcoin-lightning-network-7-things-you-should-know-604ef687af5a

64: https://medium.com/the-litecoin-school-of-crypto/a-primer-to-the-lightning-network-part-1-be909c403bde

65: https://medium.com/the-litecoin-school-of-crypto/a-primer-to-the-lightning-network-part-2-30e6c30a1049

66: https://medium.com/the-litecoin-school-of-crypto/https-medium-com-ecurrencyhodler-the-lightning-network-part-3-a6f1e69e72d7

67: https://medium.com/the-litecoin-school-of-crypto/a-scale-free-and-private-lightning-network-e52a3c178d7d

68: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lightning_Network

69: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hashed_Timelock_Contracts

70: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1G4xchDGcO37DJ2lPC_XYyZIUkJc2khnLrCaZXgvDN0U/edit?pref=2&pli=1#slide=id.g85f425098_0_2

71: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2016-January/000403.html

72: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920049524.do

73: https://bitzuma.com/owning-bitcoin/

74: https://github.com/lightninglabs/lightning-app

75: https://github.com/alexbosworth/lnd-gui

76: https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair

77: https://github.com/LN-Zap/zap-desktop

78: https://github.com/mably/lncli-web

79: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lnd-chrome-extension/fckoopaejbdhcjgpjllghoadkeicdjnf?hl=en

80: https://github.com/cdecker/kugelblitz

81: http://dev.lightning.community/guides/installation/

82: http://dev.lightning.community/tutorial/

83: http://lightning.community/lnd/faucet/2017/01/19/lightning-network-faucet/

84: http://dev.lightning.community/tutorial/01-lncli/index.html

85: http://dev.lightning.community/tutorial/02-web-client/index.html

86: http://dev.lightning.community/tutorial/03-rpc-client/index.html

87: http://dev.lightning.community/tutorial/04-webapp-integration/index.html

88: http://dev.lightning.community/guides/python-grpc/

89: http://dev.lightning.community/guides/javascript-grpc/

90: https://htlc.me/

91: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.acinq.eclair.wallet&hl=en&referrer=utm_source%3Dgoogle%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_term%3Declair+wallet&pcampaignid=APPU_1_XhdMWoqGCIHUwALewZXABQ

92: https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair/releases

93: https://github.com/LN-Zap/zap-desktop

94: https://github.com/lightninglabs/lightning-app

95: https://github.com/btcontract/lnwallet

96: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lightning.wallet

97: https://yalls.org/

98: https://starblocks.acinq.co/

99: https://blog.bitrefill.com/lightning-payments-on-testnet-for-bitrefill-ef6db8714b00

100: https://lightning.bitrefill.com/usa/

101: https://lightninggem.com/

102: http://zigzag.bitlum.io/

103: https://twitter.com/starkness/status/953434418948927488

Atomic Swaps

Developer Documentation and Resources

Lightning implementations

Libraries

Lightning Network Visualizers/Explorers

Testnet

Mainnet

Payment Processors

Community

Slack

IRC

Slack Channel

Discord Channel

Miscellaneous

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

⚡ Lightning FAQs ⚡

104: https://twitter.com/JackMallers/status/953878478524477440

105: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/946175898029395968

106: https://twitter.com/TorGuard/status/950383059735646209

107: https://twitter.com/TorGuard/status/950414221120081920

108: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/955870434230132736

109: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrDoDbnpTE4

110: https://usethebitcoin.com/lightning-network-first-ever-purchase-performed-buy-vpn-router/

111: https://twitter.com/lightning/status/931277111490265088

112: https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2017/11/16/ln-swap.html

113: http://dev.lightning.community/overview/

114: http://dev.lightning.community/

115: http://dev.lightning.community/guides/

116: http://api.lightning.community/

117: https://medium.com/@rusty_lightning/the-bitcoin-lightning-spec-part-1-8-a7720fb1b4da

118: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd

119: https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair

120: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning

121: https://github.com/mit-dci/lit

122: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-onion

123: https://github.com/cdecker/lightning-integration

124: https://github.com/nayutaco/ptarmigan

125: https://github.com/cdecker/lightning-integration

126: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning-charge

127: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning-charge-client-js

128: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning-charge-client-php

129: https://github.com/rustyrussell/lightning-payencode

130: https://github.com/cdecker/lseed

131: https://github.com/ElementsProject/woocommerce-gateway-lightning

132: https://github.com/michielbdejong/lnrpc-client

133: https://github.com/alexbosworth/ln-service

134: https://explorer.acinq.co/#/

135: https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/

136: https://bitcoinexchangerate.org/lightning

137: https://www.robtex.com/lightning/node/

138: https://twitter.com/BtcpayServer/status/953541073795670016

139: http://lightning.community/

140: https://twitter.com/lightning

141: https://blog.lightning.engineering/

142: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev

143: https://lncast.com/#%21/

144: https://lightningcommunity.slack.com

145: https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=lightning-dev&uio=d4

146: https://botbot.me/freenode/lightning-dev/

147: https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=lnd&uio=d4

148: https://lightningcommunity.slack.com

149: https://t.co/ExSi3SuWnI

150: https://twitter.com/starkness/status/953434418948927488

151: https://emojipedia.org/high-voltage-sign/

152: https://github.com/lightninglabs/lightning-faucet

153: https://github.com/mably/ln-dice

154: https://github.com/CryptoFR/ln-tip-slack

155: https://slack.com/

156: https://github.com/rustyrussell/lightning-cat/blob/master/catsearch.sh

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is Lightning Bitcoin?

Yes. You pick a peer and after some setup, create a bitcoin transaction to fund the lightning channel; it’ll then take another transaction to close it and release your funds. You and your peer always hold a bitcoin transaction to get your funds whenever you want: just broadcast to the blockchain like normal. In other words, you and your peer create a shared account, and then use Lightning to securely negotiate who gets how much from that shared account, without waiting for the bitcoin blockchain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is the Lightning Network open source?

Yes, Lightning is open source. Anyone can review the code (in the same way as the bitcoin code)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who owns and controls the Lightning Network?

Similar to the bitcoin network, no one will ever own or control the Lightning Network. The code is open source and free for anyone to download and review. Anyone can run a node and be part of the network.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I’ve heard that Lightning transactions are happening “off-chain”…Does that mean that my bitcoin will be removed from the blockchain?

No, your bitcoin will never leave the blockchain. Instead your bitcoin will be held in a multi-signature address as long as your channel stays open. When the channel is closed; the final transaction will be added to the blockchain. “Off-chain” is not a perfect term, but it is used due to the fact that the transfer of ownership is no longer reflected on the blockchain until the channel is closed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do I need a constant connection to run a lightning node?

Not necessarily,

Example: A and B have a channel. 1 BTC each. A sends B 0.5 BTC. B sends back 0.25 BTC. Balance should be A = 0.75, B = 1.25. If A gets disconnected, B can publish the first Tx where the balance was A = 0.5 and B = 1.5. If the node B does in fact attempt to cheat by publishing an old state (such as the A=0.5 and B=1.5 state), this cheat can then be detected on-chain and used to steal the cheaters funds, i.e., A can see the closing transaction, notice it's an old one and grab all funds in the channel (A=2, B=0). The time that A has in order to react to the cheating counterparty is given by the **CheckLockTimeVerify (CLTV)** in the cheating transaction, which is adjustable. So if A foresees that it'll be able to check in about once every 24 hours it'll require that the CLTV is at least that large, if it's once a week then that's fine too. **You definitely do not need to be online and watching the chain 24/7, just make sure to check in once in a while before the CLTV expires**. Alternatively you can outsource the watch duties, in order to keep the CLTV timeouts low. This can be achieved both with trusted third parties or untrusted ones (watchtowers). In the case of a unilateral close, e.g., you just go offline and never come back, the other endpoint will have to wait for that timeout to expire to get its funds back. So peers might not accept channels with extremely high CLTV timeouts. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Are Lightning’s Advantages?

Tiny payments are possible: since fees are proportional to the payment amount, you can pay a fraction of a cent; accounting is even done in thousandths of a satoshi. Payments are settled instantly: the money is sent in the time it takes to cross the network to your destination and back, typically a fraction of a second.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does Lightning require Segregated Witness?

Yes, but not in theory. You could make a poorer lightning network without it, which has higher risks when establishing channels (you might have to wait a month if things go wrong!), has limited channel lifetime, longer minimum payment expiry times on each hop, is less efficient and has less robust outsourcing. The entire spec as written today assumes segregated witness, as it solves all these problems.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can I Send Funds From Lightning to a Normal Bitcoin Address?

No, for now. For the first version of the protocol, if you wanted to send a normal bitcoin transaction using your channel, you have to close it, send the funds, then reopen the channel (3 transactions). In future versions, you and your peer would agree to spend out of your lightning channel funds just like a normal bitcoin payment, allowing you to use your lightning wallet like a normal bitcoin wallet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can I Make Money Running a Lightning Node?

Not really. Anyone can set up a node, and so it’s a race to the bottom on fees. In practice, we may see the network use a nominal fee and not change very much, which only provides an incremental incentive to route on a node you’re going to use yourself, and not enough to run one merely for fees. Having clients use criteria other than fees (e.g. randomness, diversity) in route selection will also help this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the release date for Lightning on Mainnet?

Lightning is already being tested on the Mainnet Twitter Link[157] but as for a specific date, Jameson Lopp says it best[158]

157: https://twitter.com/alexbosworth/status/946175898029395968

158: https://twitter.com/lopp/status/947808940255006726

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would there be any KYC/AML issues with certain nodes?

Nope, because there is no custody ever involved. It's just like forwarding packets. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the delay time for the recipient of a transaction receiving confirmation?

Furthermore, the Lightning Network scales not with the transaction throughput of the underlying blockchain, but with modern data processing and latency limits - payments can be made nearly as quickly as packets can be sent. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does the lightning network prevent centralization?

Bitcoin Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are Channel Factories and how do they work?

Bitcoin Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does the Lightning network work in simple terms?

Bitcoin Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How are paths found in Lightning Network?

Bitcoin Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How would the lightning network work between exchanges?

Each exchange will get to decide and need to implement the software into their system, but some ideas have been outlined here: Google Doc - Lightning Exchanges

Note that by virtue of the usual benefits of cost-less, instantaneous transactions, lightning will make arbitrage between exchanges much more efficient and thus lead to consistent pricing across exchange that adopt it. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do lightning nodes find other lightning nodes?

Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does every user need to store the state of the complete Lightning Network?

According to Rusty's calculations[159] we should be able to store 1 million nodes in about 100 MB, so that should work even for mobile phones. Beyond that we have some proposals ready to lighten the load on endpoints, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. -- Source[160]

159: https://medium.com/@rusty_lightning/lightning-routing-rough-background-dbac930abbad

160: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7iiiuf/releasing_our_lightning_network_explorer_acinq/dqzrqn8/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would I need to download the complete state every time I open the App and make a payment?

No you'd remember the information from the last time you started the app and only sync the differences. This is not yet implemented, but it shouldn't be too hard to get a preliminary protocol working if that turns out to be a problem. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What needs to happen for the Lightning Network to be deployed and what can I do as a user to help?

Lightning is based on participants in the network running lightning node software that enables them to interact with other nodes. This does not require being a full bitcoin node, but you will have to run "lnd", "eclair", or one of the other node softwares listed above.

All lightning wallets have node software integrated into them, because that is necessary to create payment channels and conduct payments on the network, but you can also intentionally run lnd or similar for public benefit - e.g. you can hold open payment channels or channels with higher volume, than you need for your own transactions. You would be compensated in modest fees by those who transact across your node with multi-hop payments. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there anyway for someone who isn't a developer to meaningfully contribute?

Sure, you can help write up educational material. You can learn and read more about the tech at http://dev.lightning.community/resources[161]. You can test the various desktop and mobile apps out there (Lightning Desktop, Zap, Eclair apps). -- Source[162]

161: http://dev.lightning.community/resources

162: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7loswa/bitcoin_has_given_me_so_much_time_to_give_back/drpj794/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do I need to be a miner to be a Lightning Network node?

No -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do I need to run a full Bitcoin node to run a lightning node?

lit[163] doesn't depend on having your own full node -- it automatically connects to full nodes on the network. -- Source[164]

163: https://github.com/mit-dci/lit

164: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7lui2v/needs_you_yes_you/drpblht/

LND[165] uses a light client mode, so it doesn't require a full node. The name of the light client it uses is called neutrino

165: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does the lightning network stop "Cheating" (Someone broadcasting an old transaction)?

Upon opening a channel, the two endpoints first agree on a reserve[166] value, below which the channel balance may not drop. This is to make sure that both endpoints always have some skin in the game as /u/rustyreddit puts it :-)

166: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/4e6eb48e1465c2a2161a0f75fe0344770044ea34/02-peer-protocol.md#the-open_channel-message

For a cheat to become worth it, the opponent has to be absolutely sure that you cannot retaliate against him during the timeout. So he has to make sure you never ever get network connectivity during that time. Having someone else also watching for channel closures and notifying you, or releasing a canned retaliation, makes this even harder for the attacker. This is because if he misjudged you being truly offline you can retaliate by grabbing all of its funds.

Spotty connections, DDoS, and similar will not provide the attacker the necessary guarantees to make cheating worthwhile. Any form of uncertainty about your online status acts as a deterrent to the other endpoint. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many times would someone need to open and close their lightning channels?

You typically want to have more than one channel open at any given time for redundancy's sake. And we imagine open and close will probably be automated for the most part. In fact we already have a feature in LND called autopilot that can automatically open channels for a user.

Frequency will depend whether the funds are needed on-chain or more useful on LN. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will the lightning network reduce BTC Liquidity due to "locking-up" funds in channels?

Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can the Lightning Network work on any other cryptocurrency? How?

Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When setting up a Lightning Network Node are fees set for the entire node, or each channel when opened?

You don't really set up a "node" in the sense that anyone with more than one channel can automatically be a node and route payments. Fees on LN can be set by the node, and can change dynamically on the network. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can Lightning routing fees be changed dynamically, without closing channels?

Yes but it has to be implemented in the Lightning software being used. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can you make sure that there will be routes with large enough balances to handle transactions?

You won't have to do anything. With autopilot enabled, it'll automatically open and close channels based on the availability of the network. -- Source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does the Lightning Network stop flooding nodes (DDoS) with micro transactions? Is this even an issue?

Stack Exchange Answer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unanswered Questions

How do on-chain fees work when opening and closing channels? Who pays the fee?

How does the Lightning Network work for mobile users?

What are the best practices for securing a lightning node?

What is a lightning "hub"?

How does lightning handle cross chain (Atomic) swaps?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special Thanks and Notes

Comments

Comment by bitcoind3 at 12/01/2018 at 16:12 UTC*

27 upvotes, 4 direct replies

Do you have any resources that explain how multi-hop HTLCs work? I just about understand the bi-party case, but I don't see how it can work when you need to hop via an intermediary.

Specifically:

Comment by grs007 at 12/01/2018 at 17:23 UTC

26 upvotes, 1 direct replies

How much more time it will take to implement on btc?

Comment by Zalwol at 12/01/2018 at 16:50 UTC*

11 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Question: Is it possible for lightning transactions to be reversible by one trusted party -- if all parties involved initially agree that this trusted party can reverse transactions at will?

I'm asking because a lot of non-techie people will never keep savings in Bitcoin because they believe it can be hacked and stolen if not stored properly (which is absolutely true, like it or not), and they'll never use it to buy anything because every transaction is final, so there's no way to recoup their funds if, say, an item they ordered never arrived. But these people are happy to keep their money in banks and use credit cards because they know that if any fraudulent tranaction happens it can easily be reversed.

So if a trusted third party with a hard-earned reputation can advertise financial services to the mainstream public with the guarantee that even if they are the victim of fraud they can reverse the tranactions at will (obviously for a limited period of time), with them being the sole arbitrators of any dispute (between, say, a merchant and buyer -- like credit card companies do regularly), then i can see people like my parents switching over.

Comment by [deleted] at 12/01/2018 at 18:10 UTC

7 upvotes, 5 direct replies

Is the cost of opening a channel potentially to high?

Comment by Bobanaut at 12/01/2018 at 15:59 UTC*

24 upvotes, 5 direct replies

So uh... why would i want to run a Lightning Network Node? There is no incentive for me to do so. Actually i would prefer my Client/Wallet to not work as a node that shifts my coins between my channels in the background... just because someone else transfers funds over me... how would i prevent that? keep only one channel to the network and hope that the other side is always on?

Edit: I am running a full btc node but it's not consuming much cpu as it's only doing simple math... a LN network node is generating a lot of keys and stuff... With enough usage this will cut really heavy into CPU/power costs... Generating these little suckers (ECDSA key pairs) is pretty time consuming

Comment by 18boro at 12/01/2018 at 18:03 UTC

22 upvotes, 4 direct replies

I admit I don't understand much of the lightning network, but based on other posts it seems that running LN nodes is hard to do for regular users because it's very power-demanding, and will likely be run by bigger setups. So this then sounds very much of what BCH was criticised for; bigger blocks leading to the inability for regular users to run nodes leading to centralisation. What am I missing?

Comment by codedaway at 12/01/2018 at 13:45 UTC

21 upvotes, 3 direct replies

It's Friday! Time to learn about the Lightning Network, ask questions, and start a discussion!

Comment by lbalan79 at 12/01/2018 at 14:24 UTC

8 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Can someone please please bring the testnet explorer to the mainnet?

Thank you

Comment by [deleted] at 12/01/2018 at 16:47 UTC

4 upvotes, 2 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by CotiNetwork at 12/01/2018 at 15:20 UTC

3 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Beta version or final?

Comment by btc-7 at 12/01/2018 at 16:54 UTC

3 upvotes, 1 direct replies

What do you need to backup an opened lightning channel? Can you recreate it from the private key (seed) or do have to save more information?

Comment by fainting-goat at 12/01/2018 at 16:56 UTC

3 upvotes, 1 direct replies

The one question I'm left with after having researched a bunch about lightning is that there are a lot of "the lightning node can" and such, particularly around the other party going rogue, but I can't figure out whether that's going to be happening automatically in the node client code, or whether the user will need to intervene in order to, for example, send the retaliation.

Comment by InstinctDT at 12/01/2018 at 17:43 UTC

3 upvotes, 3 direct replies

A and B have a channel. 1 BTC each. A sends B 0.5 BTC. B sends back 0.25 BTC. Balance should be A = 0.75, B = 1.25. If A gets disconnected, B can publish the first Tx where the balance was A = 0.5 and B = 1.5. If the node B does in fact attempt to cheat by publishing an old state (such as the A=0.5 and B=1.5 state), this cheat can then be detected on-chain and used to steal the cheaters funds, i.e., A can see the closing transaction, notice it's an old one and **grab all funds in the channel (A=2, B=0)**.

Does that mean that both A and B have the permission to move ALL the funds in the channel (both A's and B's Bitcoin)? Does that mean that both A and B can just grab all the balance at any given time? Could A or B take all the BTC before the timer (CLTV) expire and essentially steal all the BTC in the channel?

Comment by NoninstitutionalJunk at 12/01/2018 at 18:00 UTC

3 upvotes, 1 direct replies

Hey. I have a question if someone has a few moments to help me understand. LN sounds great. Definitely. But, it also sounds like a lot of "work" and hassle, IMO.

Is anyone else worried about this? If it's too much hassle for either end-users or companies to accept, they simply won't. ? I guess it really comes down to how this will look on a mobile app with a good UI. All someone should have to do is just press a button or two, the end user that is...

Thoughts?

Comment by [deleted] at 12/01/2018 at 18:18 UTC*

3 upvotes, 2 direct replies

[deleted]

Comment by Godspiral at 12/01/2018 at 19:02 UTC

3 upvotes, 3 direct replies

Any thoughts on what LN nodes might charge?

0.01% of tx value (per node hop) too low? If the costs of the service are independent of amounts transacted, would 0.0001 USD per tx be too low?

would a combination of fixed fee + % be appropriate?

Comment by ToDaMoonShibe at 12/01/2018 at 19:03 UTC

3 upvotes, 1 direct replies

when will regular people feel the change with LN (fees and transaction speed ?

Comment by mindcandy at 12/01/2018 at 19:15 UTC

3 upvotes, 0 direct replies

Would it be feasible to run an app on my phone that checks for cheaters once/day?

My phone is locally controlled, trusted machine that is connected practically 24/7 regardless of what I'm doing. If running a check is a small amount of work and network traffic, it should be feasible to run as a background app. It's possible that my phone could be taken offline for a week, but for that exceptional case I would have plenty of warning that I need to run a checker via some other means.

Comment by ktnaneri at 12/01/2018 at 17:47 UTC

9 upvotes, 2 direct replies

Considering that most part of the transactions are not between 2 individuals, but between random peers, LN has a really narrow use case, which has 2 heavy constraints - two peers do need to have a lot of transactions between each other and they need to have funds which they agree to exclude from their daily cash flow to keep in their channel. That is a really really narrow usecase...

Comment by BTC_is_waterproof at 12/01/2018 at 14:30 UTC

8 upvotes, 4 direct replies

Does anyone have an estimated time frame for when this will be out?

Comment by hxcheyo at 12/01/2018 at 21:02 UTC

5 upvotes, 3 direct replies

It’s posts like this that make me realize we are Years from mass adoption. Be back in 500 hours when I’m done absorbing all this content.

Comment by strategosInfinitum at 12/01/2018 at 16:37 UTC

2 upvotes, 2 direct replies

I have a question.

How do you guarantee that the very last lightning transactions made in a channel before it closes are the ones used?

What prevents me maliciously forwarding a more favourable to me older transaction?

Comment by MrRGnome at 12/01/2018 at 16:59 UTC

2 upvotes, 1 direct replies

How does the Lightning Network stop flooding nodes (DDoS) with micro transactions? Is this even an issue?

Hash Time Locked Contracts are traded off chain between two parties without a global broadcast mechanism. The only time the HTLCs might need to be broadcast is on the blockchain to prevent fraud. Otherwise HTLCs are unicast, reducing the number of transactions any node sees to just those moving through its channels.

Comment by Pocciox at 12/01/2018 at 18:15 UTC

2 upvotes, 3 direct replies

Does Lightning require Segregated Witness? Yes, but not in theory. You could make a poorer lightning network without it, which has higher risks when establishing channels (you might have to wait a month if things go wrong!), has limited channel lifetime, longer minimum payment expiry times on each hop, is less efficient and has less robust outsourcing. The entire spec as written today assumes segregated witness, as it solves all these problems.

How are we going to deploy lightning network if we struggle to get 10% of transactions to use segwit?

Comment by [deleted] at 12/01/2018 at 20:34 UTC*

2 upvotes, 1 direct replies

[deleted]