Text reflow woes (or: I want bullets back!)y

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 1:43 PM solderpunk <solderpunk at sdf.org> wrote:
>
> Okay, I have started to re-engage with this endless discussion -
> slowly and, I have to admit, reluctantly.  When I think about how many
> details there are to consider here, how many different options we have
> to choose among, and how absolutely incredible the power-to-weight
> ratio is of verbatim fixed-width text with a predefined width (I
> mean, really, you can:
>
> Left align text,
>                              center text,
>                                                  even right align text
>
> without the client having to even know what those things are!), it's
> incredibly tempting to echo the "reflowed text be damned!" sentiment
> recently expressed at mozz.us[1] and spec 40 character fixed text and
> just move on.

For what it's worth, I have been trying
out the 40-character width thing for a
while now and I'm really enjoying it! I
actually find it a lot more pleasant to
type vs 80 character lines. I don't know
if it's because my eyes don't need to
jump as far, or because it takes fewer
keystrokes to move my cursor to the
middle of a line... Something about it
just *feels* good to type.

Not to mention, pages like this [1]
display perfectly on my iphone using a
gemini-http proxy server. Regardless of
whether you choose to adopt the ```
mode, you're still going to need to
recommend a line length for authors to
hard wrap their text/gemini files at.
And I suggest that 40 is still worth
considering for this.

> Gopher is better than the current Gemini spec in this regard, because
> you can put gophermap lines in an item type 0 text file no problem and
> they'll just be displayed as-is.  But copying and pasting that
> gophermap is not guaranteed to go smoothly.  With terminal-based
> applications, the tabs would stand a good chance of being transformed
> into consecutive spaces, which would actually break them.  Let's be
> better than that!  Let's make it possible to display, copy and paste
> Gemini links inside of Gemini documents, to facilitate teaching and
> talking about Gemini over Gemini.  It seems quite natural that this
> should be possible.
>
> Even if text/gemini were specced at 40 fixed-width characters with no
> reflow, meeting this goal would require some syntax comparable to
> <pre> tags in HTML, to switch off processing of Gemini links.  If
> we're going to have that anyway, we may as well have reflowed text be
> the default and this <pre> syntax can do double duty by also enabling
> non-reflowed text for source code, poetry, etc.

Here are some other alternatives that
might be worth considering. I do think
that displaying gemini links is a valid
use-case, but adding a whole new
preformatted text mode only for this
narrow case feels a bit heavy-handed to
me. Granted, I realize there are other
benefits to the preformatted mode that
have already been outlined.

Option 1. Use a no-op link

Pick a URL that by convention doesn't
lead anywhere useful, and then hijack
the (link friendly name) portion to
display your gemini link.

=># =>/about.txt About

"#" is a valid relative URL, right?
Somebody else on this list *cough* sean
might be able to some up with something
better. This would be displayed on
most gemini clients as:

=>/about.txt About

The line would be highlighted as a link
(unless clients choose to handle this
special case), but otherwise it should
work without any changes to the spec.

Option 2. Use text/plain

For the narrow use-case where you want
to show off some examples of gemini
links, stick those links in a separate
text/plain document. Or just serve your
whole page as text/plain. The example
links can't intermingle with real gemini
links in the same document, but is that
really such a big deal?

How you feel about this option likely
depends on which side of the fence you
fall on regarding text/gemini usage.
Should text/gemini be used like HTML is
on the web, with most content being
written as gemini files? Or should it be
more like gopher, where directories are
type text/gemini but many people write
their blog posts and other leaf
documents as text/plain.

Lately I have been leaning more towards
the second interpretation. Take another
example: Instead of writing a python
code snippet inline in a text/gemini
document, what if you instead added a
link to your code snippet and served it
as "text/x-python"? This feels natural
to me given that other media content
like images also can't be displayed
inline.

[1] https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/mozz.us/diagnostics/2020-01-08/notes.gmi

- mozz

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