Recently, Richard G wrote a few words about *Silent Titans* on Lasagna Social, saying that it looks really good, and also remarking on the “obscurity and circularity of reference” as it refers to *Bastion* of *Electric Bastionland* or *Into the Odd*, as it used to be known.
I left a comment saying that I had had the same thoughts: visuals (superficially), the references to other products, and I added: “Rolled my eyes a bit. 🙄”
Paolo Greco then asked me about the eye rolling and I felt that he deserved a longer answer. The comment turned out to be long enough that I ended feeling it deserved a page on this blog. So there you go. 😃
It wasn’t a strong feeling I had, just a heh and one eye roll, I guess. Somebody writes a game using the rules somebody else has published, go buy those, or the free older edition, and here’s an interview I did with them, and I read it, too, but at the same time I sighed a bit and couldn’t decide whether this was people patting each other on the back for a job well done inside the very product this well done job had produced, or an instance of one hand washing the other, as we say in German, so anyway, I asked myself: what is this? Is this an ad? Is this a cooperation? And I felt that as an editor, I would have cut it.
As for the art, I’ll start with me really liking the map in *A Red and Pleasant Land*, the squares, the inking, the slight abstraction away from fantasy realism we’ve seen in D&D, away from the retro line art we’ve seen in the OSR, something new, colourful, somehow familiar and yet unknowable. I guess I’m not an art critic and fear I lack the words and the sensitivities but anyway, *Maze of the Blue Medusa* went a bit further in this direction, more abstract, less something I can just show players and say “you see this!” and more something that conveys a mood, a mental confusion, a state that is perhaps a bit like the altered state of the mystical underworld, I guess the Medusa dungeon in *Vornheim* was a bit like that, and I didn’t even look too much at *Frostbitten & Mutilated*, so then I leafed through Silent Titans and felt that it was even more abstract, even less usable, less showable, nothing I could look at and interpret as a map, or an image of a creature, or a location, but a jumble of things that provide an emotional reaction, a jumble of something, a weirdness, and I don’t deny that it fascinates me, but at the same time it’s also a bit in that line of art I like less, that I find less useful for a product that I don’t just buy to be entertained but to aid me at the table, to be useful in a very specific way.
So perhaps then the question is this: what is the purpose of art in an RPG product? It’s about pleasing the buyer, the reader. I have bought something beautiful, they say. And *Silent Titans* delivers. But I sort of dread the moment at the table. Is this something I can run at the table, as is? And I roll my eyes, a tiny little bit.
What OSR PRG product have you actually used and liked using at the table? Even Stonehell has a lot of text for my taste. I guess Castle of the Mad Arch Mage worked pretty well for more than fifty sessions.
I should write more of my own instead of complaining, hah! 😅
I am reminded of advice I recently gave somebody, regarding adventures for newbies:
“I would write my own, I think.
That’s because I think finding a scenario and preparing a scenario takes time in which you could have written your own. And having written your own, you will never fear getting it wrong.
Even the One Page Dungeon Contest submissions are too much to read through. You’ll get lost wondering whether this or that fits your aesthetics better, whether this or that plays better with the table, whether this or that offers something your players might enjoy. And all this uncertainty about picking an adventure tells me that you already know all the things you need.
Trust me on this: writing up something simple for a night is quicker than finding and reading and prepping anything else and you’ll feel better at the table, too.”
#RPG #Old School
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I love the art in RPG books but I hate that it’s only really seen by the DM. I buy more PDFs than physical books so art often gets in the way rather than enhances my experience while playing, but it’s nice for theme while reading away from the table.
– Tom 2019-05-15 20:31 UTC
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Yeah, I hate it when there are beautiful maps that nobody else ever sees.
Benefits:
Drawbacks:
And then there’s the drawbacks of having the wrong art:
– Alex Schroeder 2019-05-16 05:54 UTC
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I just read a very interesting post about *Silent Titans*.
The players even encounter the Knight in a similar way as we encounter our past, through pieces of art, telling the story of days gone by such as we fill our places of importance with. Museums, monuments, statues, and more. We build them all to remind us of the narratives that we define ourselves by. – A Literary Analysis of Silent Titans by Patrick Stuart, on the Sheep and Sorcery blog
A Literary Analysis of Silent Titans by Patrick Stuart, on the Sheep and Sorcery blog
– Alex Schroeder 2019-05-19 08:35 UTC
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Another positive review:
Silent Titans is bizarre, freaky, and confusing as hell…but somehow it still works. How did Patrick Stuart pull that off? I can think of three things: – Silent Titans Actually Works
– Alex Schroeder 2019-05-22 06:44 UTC
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100% onboard with the “I’d rather spend an hour half-assedly prepping a dungeon than looking for the right existing one” sentiment.
I guess that’s why I’ve been designing all these procedural tools and worksheets and stuff.
Hey BTW, Alex, did you write about the aforementioned sentiment somewhere else recently or am I imagining it?
– Eric Nieudan 2019-05-27 12:56 UTC
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Hm, not sure, Eric. On Lasagna Social I posted some thoughts that ended up in blog posts but it was more abstract.
2019-05-24 Tyranny of Excellence
2019-05-26 The Quality of Capitalism
– Alex Schroeder 2019-05-27 18:09 UTC
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Back in my Graphic Design class they pointed out (this is from rough memory) that most art in books serves two purposes (1) To clarify text visually (2) to act as a sort of bookmark to help find bits of information later.
So add those two to the benefits. These apply even if the art is horrifically ugly as long as it is clear (unlike the map mentioned above).
– Ruprecht 2019-06-04 18:59 UTC
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Good points!
– Alex Schroeder 2019-06-04 19:04 UTC
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I’m also reminded of my thoughts on *Fight On!* magazine and the old school I miss:
I like the spirit of doing it yourself. Making your own house rules. The sheer uncontrolled mass … makes me happy. … I like the part that is not related to products. I liked the part about Fight On! and the One Page Dungeon Contest that showed me other people doing similar stuff without shiny gloss and fancy art. – 2017-12-22 What I like about the Old School
2017-12-22 What I like about the Old School
– Alex Schroeder 2019-08-31 23:18 UTC
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Excellent blog posts:
There is an aesthetic that I want and a way I want to feel
Low production values are better for my enjoyment
And an interesting Reddit thread.
Or maybe A Lot of RPG Books Are Too Expensive. Not because they are but because we’re optimizing for coffee table books, perhaps?
A Lot of RPG Books Are Too Expensive
– Alex Schroeder 2019-08-31 23:53 UTC
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Maze of The Blue Medusa Diss Track does what it says, talking about all the things wrong with it:
Maze of The Blue Medusa Diss Track
– Alex Schroeder 2019-09-17 08:29 UTC
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Patrick Stuart asks, What do you think of art in games?
What do you think of art in games?
My take: art in a role-playing game is good if it is illustrating things the referee needs to describe but practically useless if just setting the mood. Mood is important but why not both? Monster pictures have been great. Fancy maps with a ton of scenery to show to players have been great. If it cannot be shown to players that is a warning sign.
That’s why *Stonehell* is good: it needs maps, these maps are for the referee only, nothing needs to be shown to payers and so no other art pieces need to be there.
Conversely, that is why the art booklet for *Castle of the Mad Archmage* was useless. The pictures served no purpose. The scenery was simple to describe and the picture didn’t help, and the pictures weren’t not interesting enough for players.
Looking back I have been showing pictures from monster manuals to players since forever. The pictures from D&D 3+ and Pathfinder have been great. The maps in the *Planescape* books have been great.
If art is super simple and simply serves layout purposes, then that is fine, of course. But that is a very different thing. No need to commission a lot of art, though.
If art is used for marketing and product identity then that is also a different thing. This can also be achieved using other means, of course.
If you are the creator and you love artists drawing the stuff you’ve been thinking of, then that is a different thing, too.
I would have liked a few city scenes for *Yoon Suin*, and better pictures of snail people.
– Alex Schroeder 2019-09-17 09:09 UTC
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From the blog post by @loottheroom:
… for our 40 page zine, illustrated to the level that consumers want in an ideal world, we need: A cover. $500. Four full page illustrations. $800. Fourteen pieces of spot art. $1,050. That’s a total art spend of $2,350. That means that if we charge $10 for the book … DriveThruRPG … take 35% of each sale. So to make $2,350 with a $10 PDF there, we need to sell somewhere around 360 copies rather than 235 copies. That makes us an Electrum bestseller. At the time of writing this, 7.2% of all releases on DTRPG achieve this level of sales. – RPGs and The High Cost Of Art
Oof! Art forces us all to commercialize. Or to learn to make our own art.
– Alex 2023-06-22 15:48 UTC