Please do not run on the platforms... So the man that was executed by the police was an innocent man. I’ve had several debates before where I claimed that running away from the police should never be enough for the death penalty – and even if it were, we have a Rechtsstaat (”constitutional state”) where people have a right to a fair trial. Extra-judicial killings have no place in our society.
Please do not run on the platforms...
Please do not run on the platforms...
I said: Maybe he was running away because he had drugs on him. Maybe he was mentally ill, paranoid. Maybe he was an illegal resident. Maybe he *was* a terrorist. None of this deserves the death penalty. There *is* no death penalty in a civilized nation.
Even if the police claimed self-defense because he was about to blow himself up. The original report said:
“He half tripped... they pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him,” he told BBC News 24. ¹
There’s no need to shoot a man being held down *five times*.
And now he turns out to be innocent, which makes the tradegy even more unbelievable.
If the policemen in question have lost relatives in the recent bombings, or if they are known racists – then they should take some time off or they should be suspended from service.
If we start implementing shoot-to-kill people will soon be as affraid of the police as they are of every other dark-skinned man. Yuck!
Codenamed Operation Kratos, and based on the experiences of the Israeli security forces, the guidance reportedly states that an officer can shoot a suspect in the head if it is thought he is a suicide bomber who poses an imminent danger to police or the public. ²
#England
(Please contact me if you want to remove your comment.)
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Running away from the police wasn’t the only thing.
He jumped over the ticket line, straight into the underground towards a large group of people with a big jacket (in the midst of summer) that could hold a suicide bomb. But I suppose if the police had not shot, and the uy had been a suicide bomber the same whiners would complain that the police should shoot. You can’t win with people who share the hatred of western society with mulim extremists.
– Berend de Boer 2005-07-26 22:25 UTC
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What exactly are you trying to say, that I share the hatred of western society with “mulim” extremists? I guess it all depends on what you mean by “western society” – the people who invented human rights, or the ones violating them?
– Alex Schroeder 2005-07-26 23:46 UTC
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What I’m saying is that you misrepresented this case. Deliberately I had to suppose. Just claiming “the police shot an innocent man” and implying that they’re on the side who oppose the “rechtstaat” is a deliberate attempt to present a case against those who, in my and many others, try to protect us.
Muslims in Britain make the same noises.
Maybe you should try to do another post, going through detail in this case, and see if you reach the same conclusion.
If you imply that the police should never shoot-to-kill, as you seem do, you would just embolden terrorists. That puts you effectively on their side.
– Berend de Boer 2005-07-27 00:05 UTC
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Well, I guess that’s a different trade-off we’re willing to make, here. I think everybody should have a right to a fair trial. A shoot-to-kill policy does not meet the high standards I set to the society I want to live in.
To claim that this puts me on the side of terrorists is totally ridiculous.
– Alex Schroeder 2005-07-27 00:15 UTC
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I think your comment regarding muslims in Britain is rather offensive, too.
– Alex Schroeder 2005-07-27 00:16 UTC
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I don’t want to live in a society where I can be blown up at anytime by someone claiming to be a faithful muslim.
Hinting that the police might have ’known racists’ in its force isn’t offensive?
– Berend de Boer 2005-07-27 02:08 UTC
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Are you denying it? It would be quite a miracle to learn that there are no racists in the British police. So while I don’t know of a racist, I just assume that are some, just as there are racists everywhere.
Anyway, back to the basics: You seem to believe that there are only possible developments – shoot-to-kill or suffering terrorist attacks. I happen to believe that better solutions are possible.
– Alex Schroeder 2005-07-27 08:41 UTC
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JoiIto also writes about False Positives. He cites Kofi Annan as saying “Upholding human rights is not merely compatible with a successful counter-terrorism strategy. It is an essential element in it.” ¹
I also recommend BruceSchneier’s BeyondFear.
– Alex Schroeder 2005-07-27 12:04 UTC
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Another update by JoiIto, suggesting that maybe the police lied: Perhaps the innocent man executed was not running away, and was not wearing suspicious clothing. ²
In the comments, other readers suggest more sources. ³ ⁴
– Alex Schroeder 2005-08-23 09:16 UTC
